Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain

[bignic]

Nic - the thing that I really struggle with is if it's as glaringly obvious to me (and you) who played at a decent level but am now just a supporter watching from afar, why can't the blokes who run the club football operations full time and live and breath it not see it??

The fact that jones, white and Rowe are 3 of our 5 'talls' last night is a sign of incompetence of the highest order in list management and recruiting. You could bring Jesus Christ in next year to coach and we will still be bottom 4, because we have so many players who are now either past their best (jamo, Judd, carrots, kruz, walker, simmo) or are never going to make it as even decent afl level players. When Judd retires the gold standard for determination, desperation and hunger to win will be lost from the club - and even with the best player of his era we couldn't make it to the top 4. I have been a passionate supporter for over 35 years but am more pessimistic today than I have ever been.

I have watched Sydney belt us up here the last 3 times we have played them, and last night it was like watching the u17's play the u13's. They are playing a different sport to us and we are light years away from being competitive with the good sides when you look at what's coming through our recruiting.

Are you sure you are not my long lost brother?, I actually posted a week or so ago that Jesus Christ couldn't coach this team  : :

[bignic]

I should have added, that I totally agree with your post.

[bignic]

Just a word or three on Goodes.

I listened very carefully every time Goodes got the ball in the first and early part of the second quarter, and could not hear any booing from the Carlton supporters. They treated him with the respect that a great player deserves.

If only Juddy was afforded the same respect when he plays!!

Goodes confirmed that he did not do his war dance because the Carlton fans were booing, in fact quite the opposite.

However, I thought his war dance was as ridiculous as Lindsay Thomas pointing a pretend shot gun in the air, or Dustin Martin, I think it was doing the handcuff sign, although it could have been someone else, I stand to be corrected.

I abhor racism of any kind, there is no place for it in our society.

However, other than kissing a black armband after kicking a goal in order to express their emotions in remembering a deceased family member,  I object to players using the football field either as a political football, or to express any religious or racial symbolism whatsoever.

Do I find anything wrong with Goodes dance? Not at all.

However, it's the old saying of time and place that applies.

Had Goodes stood in front of the Swans cheer squad prior to the first bounce, and performed the dance, just like the Moaris, who, as a TEAM, perform the haka in front of their opponents BEFORE a game, I doubt that anyone but the most abhorrent racist,would have had a problem with it.

However, he waited until he had scored a goal, and performed it in front of the Carlton fans, who, up to that point in time, by Goodes' own admission, had behaved in an exemplary manner.

It was a provocative act, designed to have a go at the Hawthorn supporters who had mercilessly booed him the week before, and saying to those supporters,  and others who had booed him in the past and those likely to boo him in the future, that he would not be intimidated by their booing.

That's fine, Adam, but in my opinion, you picked the wrong time and the wrong place to do it.

[PassIt2Carrots]

Yeah, Indigenous dance in the Indigenous round what was he thinking BN??!!

[bignic]

Carrots, unfortunately, you are like many friends of mine who form an opinion on a subject, and no matter how logical a counter argument that I put forward which expresses a different opinion, they are so blinkered biased, that they can't see the wood for the trees.

In this particular case, Carrots, you read what you wanted to read, not what I actually said.

Where did I say that he should not have performed the dance?

The whole basis of my post was, and I'll italicize it so that there can be no misunderstanding, TIME AND PLACE.

To repeat.

Had Adam done the war dance in front of the Swans cheer squad prior to the start of the game, as his contribution and as an expression of his Aboriginal heritage in this Indigenous round, no one, other than the most hateful racist, would have had an issue with it.

But he didn't do that.

He waited for a quarter and a half and until he had scored a goal, and performed the dance, which ended by him throwing an imaginary spear at the Carlton fans, who, by Adams own admission, had treated him with nothing but respect, up to that point in time.

I don't know how old you are Carrots, but with the greatest respect, please take a tip from an old bloke that has been gained over years of living on this planet.

You can teach, kids and adults lot's of things, which will enable them to make a useful contribution to society.

However the one thing you cannot teach anyone, is common-sense. Unfortunately, common-sense, is not so common.  Our umpires are a prime example of men who know all the rules, yet for the most part, lack common-sense in the way they implement those laws.

As an adult, and an Australian of the year, and as a highly respected member of the Aboriginal Community, Adam Goodes should have had the common-sense to understand, that doing a war dance in front of what were up to that point in time, respectful Carlton supporters,  and ending with throwing an imaginary spear at them, COULD invoke in those supporters a feeling of deliberate provocation on Goodes' part.

It did and they booed him from that moment on.

As I said, Carrots, and it's a point that you obviously have a problem comprehending, TIME AND PLACE.

[PassIt2Carrots]

Carrots, unfortunately, you are like many friends of mine who form an opinion on a subject, and no matter how logical a counter argument that I put forward which expresses a different opinion, they are so blinkered biased, that they can't see the wood for the trees.

That's just it, I don't see your time and place argument as logical. It was Indigenous round, he had just kicked a goal. He wanted o do it as a tribute to the Indigenous community, he may not have kicked another goal. No one seemed to take offence when Murph gave the finger to the Collingwood crowd back in 2012. Was the finger any less offensive?

[bignic]

You have got to be kidding, Carrots. If anything defy's logic, it's your answer.

Comparing Murphy sticking his finger up to Goodes' war dance, absolutely defies logic.

Firstly, you have conveniently forgotten, that  Murphy's finger gesture did cause offence, and Murphy was justifiably fined for his action.

Secondly, you once again defy all logic, by comparing a gesture to fans by Murphy, which has now been accepted by Australians as being obscene, with a war dance performed by Adam Goodes which, unless one is racist, is accepted by Australians as part of the culture of our Indigenous people. How much more ridiculous can you get!!

This war dance was apparently adopted and developed by an under 18 football team of Aboriginals and they performed it BEFORE a game, just like a HAKA, in front of their opponents.

There is absolutely NO RECORD WHATSOEVER, of any of the players in that team, performing the war dance during the game, after having kicked a goal.

They, who are much younger than Goodes, understood the concept of time and place far better than he did.

It is a pity, that like him, you don't understand it either.

[PassIt2Carrots]

To me the only logic defying comment is the one questioning an Indigenous celebratory dance in Indigenous round. Amazing stuff. Why don't we ask the under 18 side what they thought of Goodes doing it after a goal? I'm sure they'd have no complaints.

[bignic]

That would be like asking gays, what they thought of gay marriage. What do you think they would say?

Your illogicality continues to defy logic. : :

[PassIt2Carrots]

That would be like asking gays, what they thought of gay marriage. What do you think they would say?

Your illogicality continues to defy logic. : :

You brought them into it, not me. Still can't get over someone questioning the timing of an indigenous celebratory dance in Indigenous round. :S