Las Vegas Mass Shooting

[LP]

“You look at the weapon obtaining, the different amounts of Tannerite [explosives] available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own?
“On face value, you’ve got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point, and we want to ensure that that’s the answer.” 

You mean somebody sold him the stuff, probably an Islamist International Arms dealer, they killed and wounded hundreds to cover their tracks in the assassination of a person who had proof of Russia's involvement in the Trump election!  :

Or, a fat America Sheriff cannot believe one man could carry all that stuff to the 32nd floor, it must have been assisted by the Bellboy!  :

This media and internet speculation is rubbish, the USA and the NRA cannot possibly allow the reality of this to sink in, because Americans never do anything wrong and it's not the guns fault!

They are fat because the food companies do it to them, people are killed by the devil not guns or other people, cars kill people because of acts of God, climate change is because of the sun, a multinational company gave them cancer, a terrorist used imported illegal weapons, micro-chips are put in their teeth fillings by the government! :

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Reality is Occam's Razor. A forkwit, probably a mentally ill forkwit with money to burn, slowly snapped and shot dead a bunch of people in a country where weapons of mass destruction can be purchased with an appropriately presented drivers license and delivered with a picnic hamper a few hours after a cooling off period!

FFS, some banks or credit unions still hand out weapons when you open a new account!

[DJC]

Yourself and DJC went too early with the mocking of fellow posters.

Police are now saying they don't believe he acted alone.

I don't know that I mocked other posters but I did mock the conspiracy theorists who, for whatever reason, want to believe that there was more than one shooter.

As for the carnage caused, any competent shooter familiar with his/her weapons and with 100 round magazines could manage that.  Fortunately, the shooter didn't have military training or the toll could have been much worse.

[cookie2]

I don't know that I mocked other posters but I did mock the conspiracy theorists who, for whatever reason, want to believe that there was more than one shooter.

As for the carnage caused, any competent shooter familiar with his/her weapons and with 100 round magazines could manage that.  Fortunately, the shooter didn't have military training or the toll could have been much worse.

Thanks for sharing your ballistics expertise with us DJC. I think I'll wait for the official version.

[LP]

Thanks for sharing your ballistics expertise with us DJC. I think I'll wait for the official version.

DJC is correct, anybody can modify an existing carbine to be rapid fire. Kits are available commercially for popular brands.

[flash=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/v/U7DTjSla-O8[/flash]

Also sniper type weapons are widely available. In my younger days I was a sporting shooter, I got rid of my weapons when my first child was born. At that time I had rifles including Ruger Mini-14, SIG Sniper rifle and Lee Enfield 303 jungle editions. The Ruger could be modified with a 100 round circular clip and bit of bent metal not much more than a hair or paper clip to deliver 7 rounds per second. It wouldn't last long like that, but long enough to empty a full clip. The SIG Sniper rifle, with the right ammunition, had lock down groupings of 40mm at a range of 2000 metres. The .303 with full grain ammunition would go through two car doors, three 44 gallon drums or a heavy duty plough blade. All were freely and widely available in Australia.

They seem excessive, but if a boar or water buffalo are charging at you they feel like a toothpick!

Despite what these weapons can do, if most people tried to use them they'd be lucky to hit the hotel let alone a tiny little shooter firing at them from 350m away! The girl in that video knows what she is doing, she isn't a rookie, and she'll struggle to keep a grouping on that car only 30m or 40m away!

The point that is important here, these modifications you can buy in the USA have no purpose in hunting. They are clumsy, useless, uncontrolled, rapid fire pyrotechnics that reduce precision rifles into long range shotguns. The kits are not designed for hunting, and should not be available to the public under any circumstance!

[cookie2]

@LP

All very interesting stuff LP. I was reading a report that was saying that Paddock, as the single shooter, over the elapsed time the police allege and using only 30 round magazines would have have been killing or wounding 2.1 people every second. I find that pretty amazing shooting with what was a modified semi automatic weapon. I'll await the official report though - premature to jump to any conclusions.

[LP]

@LP

All very interesting stuff LP. I was reading a report that was saying that Paddock, as the single shooter, over the elapsed time the police allege and using only 30 round magazines would have have been killing or wounding 2.1 people every second. I find that pretty amazing shooting with what was a modified semi automatic weapon. I'll await the official report though - premature to jump to any conclusions.

2.1 people per second on average.

But he started by firing into a tightly packed concert crowd, he would have been killing or injuring far more than that per second initially. It would be like firing at blades of grass on the lawn.

Depending what rounds he used, some shots might have easily killed more than one person. If he concentrated fire on the crowd pinch points he'd be able to sustain a high rate.

After that, once the crowd dispersed, the automatic weapon would be mostly useless at the range described. See the video of the girl 30m away from the car, a good deal of her shots hit the ground or pass over the vehicle. He probably switched to one of the DDM4s or a similar sniper type rifles he had in the room, but most of the damage was probably already done. A 30 round clip, 5s to empty and another 5s or less to change in a fresh one! Rehearsed, I think 90 Rnds per minute is easily attainable, the thing that apparently stitched him up was the smoke building up in the hotel room.

How can psychology, welfare and law enforcement deal with a situation that can do so much damage in such a short period of time. Weapons control is the only answer!

[Mav]

The point that is important here, these modifications you can buy in the USA have no purpose in hunting. They are clumsy, useless, uncontrolled, rapid fire pyrotechnics that reduce precision rifles into long range shotguns. The kits are not designed for hunting, and should not be available to the public under any circumstance!

Some former military guy on CNN said that the US Army has used limiters on their automatic weapons so they shoot in bursts of 3.  Says that the military is concerned that the adrenaline rush can otherwise lead to adverse results.  He wondered why the US Army doesn't need or desire continuous fire but "sporting" shooters do.

[Thryleon]

Thryleon, are you talking about the cabbie footage supposedly showing muzzle flash from floors beneath the identified shooter (referred to in the link Flyboy provided)?  As one comment noted on that webpage, the same flashing light was apparent after the shooting finished and appears to be a flashing light inside the hotel. 

Maybe, I don't really know.  I saw a clip, and heard some audio.  Was it a cabbie?  Was it someone else?  I don't know.  Was it the same hotel?  Absolutely.  Like I stated, was it even a second shooter?  I don't know nut the audio I heard had two guns firing at once and like I said, perhaps it was simply an echo of the first gun.  All I am doing is raising a possibility that the story might be different to what we are being told.

Why do we need to question "the official version"?  Why not let the investigation wend its way slowly and methodically given this is the best way for law enforcement to proceed?  Why do we have to fill in gaps in our knowledge with conspiracy theories? 

Because like I stated in a previous post, I reject information I am given because I have seen far too many instances of being told lies and mistruths.  Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq would be my number one counter argument here.  Why am I like this?  Personally, I like to form my own opinion of circumstances rather than believe the rhetoric.  This is what I call keeping an open mind.  Another one that I can bring up here, is that the pentagon was not hit with a plane, but rather some sort of missile.  what that was, I cant say, but the facts point to the official story being wrong.  Then they go marching into the middle east causing trouble, and I always keep in mind that perhaps the USA is the aggressor in these circumstances, rather than simply "defending themselves".  Still, such is life.  I won't find out for sure either way, but if ideas were never challenged, we would all believe the world was flat wouldn't we??

Why would there be a 2nd shooter?  Why would that shooter have been much more concerned with staying under the radar than the other shooter?  Multiple shooters might be worthwhile if terrorists fear that a lone shooter may be apprehended or neutralised quickly.  Or if the aim is to work towards a big death toll.  But if the aim is terror, why would 100 kills be better than 58?  And surely the mythical back-up shooter would have been happy to simply watch without running any risks given that the 1st shooter was shooting for minutes?  Why didn't the 2nd shooter pick up the batton once the 1st shooter stopped firing?  There's no compelling logic that requires us to fill in the gaps in knowledge by creating a 2nd shooter.

I don't know, but to find the answer to these questions, you would have to understand the motive behind why this whole thing happened in the first place which might we wide and varied and largely not likely to yield results we will ever know for sure.  i.e. It might have been an assasination of one specific person and to dilute it by murdering another 100 odd people and pinning it on a fall guy might be how they get away with it. Or I might have an overactive imagination.

Perhaps the second shooter simply killed this guy, pinned the whole ordeal on him, and then has vanished into the night.  Free to murder again in his own time whilst this guy takes the blame and that means there is another unhinged person out there we should really be worried about.


Or maybe we should just take your word for it and wonder why on earth this person acted out like that, paint him as unhinged and pretend that there are not more threats to our safety out there?

Take your pick what you want to believe.  Ill keep my mind open for now and we will see where this ends up.

In the meantime ask yourself the following question.  By being so outright dismissive of an alternative truth, are you being like Galileo who is searching for the truth?  Or those who called him heretic and tried to squash his theory that the world was indeed round like he stated??

[cookie2]

@LP

So around 180 rounds per minute? Apparently the police allege about 4 mins firing time so about 720 rounds all up and 573 people hit. Seems like pretty good shooting to me.

[flyboy77]

Las Vegas SWAT was able to gain entry into Paddock's suite about an hour after the first shots were fired.

I read it was closer to 75 minutes.....

http://abc7chicago.com/security-guard-fi...m/2490027/

I note the LVPD HQ is 15 minutes - at regular speed - from the Mandalay...

And is Mav prepared to argue a large casino - liked the Mandalay Bay Resort - wouldn't have a heavy duty armed security team, and mega SUPER HIGH TECH camera EVERYWHERE!?