SSM Plebiscite

[Lods]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/2017/09/20/18/1...n-marriage

Jamison, who left the club at the end of last season after 150 matches, suggested it wasn't good enough.

"You can fence sit when you are debating whether to have a twilight grand final not when it comes to equality," he wrote on Twitter.

Carlton AFLW star Darcy Vescio has also been a prominent campaigner for same-sex marriage.

[madbluboy]

Good statement from the club, no need to join the bullying campaign.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Good statement from the club, no need to join the bullying campaign.

Tend to agree...he says" You can fence sit when you are debating whether to have a twilight grand final not when it comes to equality," he wrote on Twitter."
I'm not sure the club can sit anywhere else but to encourage people to make up their own mind..
Would the club have to take any endorsement of a yes or no to the members to vote on first?

[DJC]

Sure, but that's not the point I am making DJC.

What we think about someone else's idea of anything is quite irrelevant (Ironically what we are being asked to vote on is somewhat the same).

The fact is, that some people really cherish and treasure what it might mean to them, and they might see the idea of Marriage being redefined by this action devalued accordingly (which I don't quite understand, because my relationship with my wife will not change as a result of this vote irrespective of legislation changing regarding it).

It's a little bit like ideological change.  You can't push it on people, and then wonder why they get upset about it, and on top of that label them facsist nazi bigots to go with it.

Again, fight this stuff with facts and debate, not a sacking on the back of saying, it is ok to vote no or coersion.

My point is that marriage isn't going to be re-defined if the 'yes' vote gets up and parliament passes legislation.  All that will do is to take things back to how they were before Little Johnny Howard re-defined marriage to suit his values in 2004.  That was done immediately after the UK Parliament passed the Civil Partnership Act 2004 which gave same-sex couples the same legal rights as heterosexual couples.  Of course, the Civil Partnership Act 2004 was replaced by the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013.  It's ironic that our society is more conservative than the 'whinging Poms' we like to deride.

I usually have the ABC radio on when I'm in my workshop and I hear all sorts of people trying to justify their position on marriage equality.  It's not really a debate; one side argues for equality, the other side talks about the evils of the Safe Schools Program or tries to invent a biblical prohibition on same-sex marriage.  One f-wit went so far as to suggest that Hitler did the right thing when he sent homosexuals to concentration camps  :o

I grew up in an era in which homosexuals were vilified and 'poofter bashing' was an accepted form of amusement.  My views have changed and I have LGBTIQ friends and family members who are no threat to me and my way of life.  I can't say that about the religious right and their intolerance of anything that doesn't conform to their narrow view of the world.

I have watched Penny Wong debate Cory Bernardi and cringed at his despicable insinuation that allowing same-sex marriage will lead to bestiality.  I also heard on the news today that a man was convicted of marrying a 14 year old girl despite welfare officers telling him, the child and the child's mother that it would be illegal.  The faith of those involved wasn't disclosed but I think that I am confident in believing that it is one that is opposed to same-sex marriage.

And what about the young couple whose marriage in a Presbyterian church was cancelled because the bride to be posted something in favour of marriage equality on Facebook?  How dare that so-called minister destroy the hopes of a faithful young couple because their views are more progressive than his warped sense of what is right?

I think that people have every right to debate this issue; but with facts, not bigoted, sectarian tripe  >

[dodge]

I like what they have said, too.  There are many that are looking at organisations for their stance, however, if you are an employee it can cause a disconnect if you don't agree with your employer's stance.  I think that they have strongly said where they stand on the issue, however, put no pressure on anyone in the club for the way they may vote.

Looking at the CFC facebook page, there are many that are disappointed with the statement.  The Yes' obviously think that it isn't strong enough and the No's may think that it doesn't really support their view.

[madbluboy]

The bullying left are already attacking Carlton for fence sitting.

[Thryleon]

My point is that marriage isn't going to be re-defined if the 'yes' vote gets up and parliament passes legislation.  All that will do is to take things back to how they were before Little Johnny Howard re-defined marriage to suit his values in 2004.  That was done immediately after the UK Parliament passed the Civil Partnership Act 2004 which gave same-sex couples the same legal rights as heterosexual couples.  Of course, the Civil Partnership Act 2004 was replaced by the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013.  It's ironic that our society is more conservative than the 'whinging Poms' we like to deride.

I usually have the ABC radio on when I'm in my workshop and I hear all sorts of people trying to justify their position on marriage equality.  It's not really a debate; one side argues for equality, the other side talks about the evils of the Safe Schools Program or tries to invent a biblical prohibition on same-sex marriage.  One f-wit went so far as to suggest that Hitler did the right thing when he sent homosexuals to concentration camps  :o

I grew up in an era in which homosexuals were vilified and 'poofter bashing' was an accepted form of amusement.  My views have changed and I have LGBTIQ friends and family members who are no threat to me and my way of life.  I can't say that about the religious right and their intolerance of anything that doesn't conform to their narrow view of the world.

I have watched Penny Wong debate Cory Bernardi and cringed at his despicable insinuation that allowing same-sex marriage will lead to bestiality.  I also heard on the news today that a man was convicted of marrying a 14 year old girl despite welfare officers telling him, the child and the child's mother that it would be illegal.  The faith of those involved wasn't disclosed but I think that I am confident in believing that it is one that is opposed to same-sex marriage.

And what about the young couple whose marriage in a Presbyterian church was cancelled because the bride to be posted something in favour of marriage equality on Facebook?  How dare that so-called minister destroy the hopes of a faithful young couple because their views are more progressive than his warped sense of what is right?

I think that people have every right to debate this issue; but with facts, not bigoted, sectarian tripe  >

missed the point I was trying to make entirely.

I can't communicate it well enough.

[DJC]

missed the point I was trying to make entirely.

I can't communicate it well enough.

That's the problem with online debates Thry.  Perhaps we'll catch up after a win and agree about everything 

I should add that I'm not having a go at your contributions Thry, just pointing out that the 'debate' is one-sided if you don't accept fundamentalist religious statements of belief.

[Mav]

The bullying left are already attacking Carlton for fence sitting.

Thank God the right doesn't bully.  They just stand up for Christian values and defend their cultural heritage.  It's not their fault if people who try to move Australia out of the 1950s get hurt in the process.

[DJC]

The bullying left are already attacking Carlton for fence sitting.

I always had my doubts about Jammo 

As for fence-sitting, that's as strong an endorsement for a 'yes' vote as you can have without actually coming out and saying "vote 'yes'".  However, it's clear that a lot of Carlton supporters would have preferred the club to have been more forthright in supporting marriage equality.  I suspect that they are more your average supporter than the "bullying left".  The "bullying right" hasn't responded yet; I reckon they are locked in a debate over how to spell 'repudiate'