Rd 18: Pre Game Premonitions: Carlton vs Brisbane

[flyboy77]

That won't start changing until next year. It's the way Clarko did it when he first started at Hawthorn and Roos at Melbourne. Eventually offence was blended in. Patience is a virtue.

We've been more than just in contests, we have been in front 5 times in the last qtr and lost. That's more than numerical. In the unlikely event we were theoretically able to win all 5 then we'd be equal 4th. Not as far off as we think but with our injuries, as well as the young bloke getting tired, we might struggle the rest of the year. Reckon we can have a second win in Qld this year though.

A voice of reason? Surely not!

[kruddler]

AFL footy, like most sports, is a territorial battle. The battle for territory isn't just up and down, it's lateral as well. The Doggies clogged up the corridor when we were in attack, yet paradoxically seemed to use the corridor when they were in attack.

SOS did an interview with Mike Sheahan a few years back. I don't like the interview - I thought SOS came across as cagey and evasive, but that's by the bye. One of the points he made is that as a defender, he was determined to stake out some territory on his opponent, and under no circumstances would he ever give up that territory, come hell or high water. I like this attitude very much.

The great Cats teams from a few seasons back all made a habit of owning the corridor.

I'm not suggesting we have the personnel to do it, but to at least make an effort to not surrender valuable territory so meekly might be nice.

You have 2 options as an afl club.

1. As you suggest, play the territorial game: They can't score if they can't get into their forwardline.
or
2. Play the keepings off game: They can't score if they don't have the ball.

End game is to play the keepings off game in your forwardline until you can kick a goal.

How quickly it gets there and what direction it takes to get there is an ever-changing landscape based on trends of the day. Most opinions on which is best is usually a personal preference, based on what makes the better spectacle for them.

[PaulP]

The keepings off game is doomed to failure - we aren't skillful or strong enough to hold possession for long periods, and not skillful or strong enough to win it back repeatedly after we cough it up. If we can only hold onto the ball for 1 minute before we lose it, why not move the ball quickly forward and at least put ourselves in better field position, both to kick a goal, and also to make it harder for the opposition, because they are further from goal ?

I would argue moving the ball forward quickly works better with a limited skill set, because playing keepings off in our back half requires understanding and skills that I don't think we have, and also allows the opposition to set up far too easily.

[ElwoodBlues1]

You have 2 options as an afl club.

1. As you suggest, play the territorial game: They can't score if they can't get into their forwardline.
or
2. Play the keepings off game: They can't score if they don't have the ball.

End game is to play the keepings off game in your forwardline until you can kick a goal.

How quickly it gets there and what direction it takes to get there is an ever-changing landscape based on trends of the day. Most opinions on which is best is usually a personal preference, based on what makes the better spectacle for them.

Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.

[ElwoodBlues1]

The keepings off game is doomed to failure - we aren't skillful or strong enough to hold possession for long periods, and not skillful or strong enough to win it back repeatedly after we cough it up. If we can only hold onto the ball for 1 minute before we lose it, why not move the ball quickly forward and at least put ourselves in better field position, both to kick a goal, and also to make it harder for the opposition, because they are further from goal ?

I would argue moving the ball forward quickly works better with a limited skill set, because playing keepings off in our back half requires understanding and skills that I don't think we have, and also allows the opposition to set up far too easily.

I agree... but Bolton would argue he is teaching defensive basics and that he wants his defense to operate as a team and his midfielders also to get back, occupy space and complete the zone.
When he is satisfied that the playing group have mastered the basics I would expect him to go to a more hybrid model and then when he has the list he wants he would adopt a more attacking philosophy.
Dont think we will ever get to the GWS full on running attack down the corridor model as Bolton strikes me as a more conservative old school coach who values a disciplined defensive unit as his best weapon..

[chalkybill]

WE WILL WIN !!!!  WE HAVE TO!!!!!!    I am spending a bit of coin to fly up with the missus, see the game and stay a week.  I will be REALLY PI55ED OFF if we lose.  >  >  >

[PaulP]

I agree... but Bolton would argue he is teaching defensive basics and that he wants his defense to operate as a team and his midfielders also to get back, occupy space and complete the zone.
When he is satisfied that the playing group have mastered the basics I would expect him to go to a more hybrid model and then when he has the list he wants he would adopt a more attacking philosophy.
Dont think we will ever get to the GWS full on running attack down the corridor model as Bolton strikes me as a more conservative old school coach who values a disciplined defensive unit as his best weapon..

I like those points. It is IMO, an interesting discussion. DJC reckons that the Box Hill Hawks under Bolton were a high scoring team, so it seems as though he's capable. But yes, he does seem a little old school. If he can get us playing and scoring like the Pies circa 2010-2011 (as an example of another old school coach), I for one will be very happy.

[kruddler]

Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.

Get 'cute' ?

We are taking the higher % options. That is the opposite of getting cute.
We don't have the skill to get cute.

Weiterings kick was terrible, but the exception not the rule. Every team has 1 of them a week, perhaps not as bad as that, but same end result at least.

We are focussing on defense so it becomes second nature.
It takes a team to defend but an individual can kick a goal.

Get the structures, culture and habits correct to build a solid team defence, and then sprinkle in a few x-factors down the track to assist in the attacking side of things.
Someone like Pickett for example could be that x-factor. Even Boeky could come into his own with a better team. Allow him to be the outside run, carry and create player.
We could always re-draft Yarran. 

Of course, we still need a target or 3 to kick too, but i've done that to death.

[JonHenry]

Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.

He is the best kick in the team.
Why does he take that option?
Why was it not 50

[DJC]

I like those points. It is IMO, an interesting discussion. DJC reckons that the Box Hill Hawks under Bolton were a high scoring team, so it seems as though he's capable. But yes, he does seem a little old school. If he can get us playing and scoring like the Pies circa 2010-2011 (as an example of another old school coach), I for one will be very happy.

In 2009 Bolton coached the Box Hill Hawks to a semi-final loss against Port Melbourne 19.10.124 to 19.14.128.  Perhaps losing a shoot-out final has made him a little gun-shy  :-\

No, I'm convinced that our defensive style is simply part of the work in progress.