Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

[shadesy]

If Cripps had stayed on the ground we would have, it's just the luck of the draw.

Yeah I hear you.

But no Viney and Tyson and reckon that was the best movement of the ball we have had all year in the first half.

Just frustrating, I am not about wins and losses this year, but we should be at least 7-8 wins already.

[kruddler]

I love your comparison.

Jack Silvagni has kicked 15.14 for the year (most of those misses were from set shots - many of them very gettable). He also hoiked one out on the full which you didn't mention.

Cas has kicked 23.13 for the year. So a full 30% better at shooting for goal than Jack.

Cas is also number 1 in the league for contested marks. Yep - number 1. Yet he's in your view a "stop gap"?

If we lost him to free agency it would be an unmitigated disaster.

I don't get your hatred of Casboult. I had him in our best 2 or 3 players yesterday and top 5 in our B&F.

Firstly,
Jack Silvagni is 18yo.
Levi Casboult is 27.
As such, we expect more from Levi than we do a teenager. Levi didn't play a game until he was 22.

Secondly,
Your %'s are out of whack. AFL website includes missed shots altogether.
Jack (15.14.4(oob) = 45.5%
Levi (23.13.7(oob) = 53.5%

8% difference between them, not 30.

Thirdly,
I've pointed out that it was one of Casboults best games. I have often said that he has the best hands in the league. When i evaluate him, i take all that into account.
2 things really rub me the wrong way with him.
- He's been in the system for long enough now. He is still struggling with the basics of the game. Mental or otherwise.
- He simply cannot be relied upon with the ball in his hands to win you the game. Who was the last bloke with a shot on goal for us yesterday? Could've put us 9 points up deep in the last quarter.

Finally,
There is no hatred of him.
Just want for the best for the club. Having a below par key forward will not take us to the ultimate success.

[IvanAwfulbigone]

Cas is also number 1 in the league for contested marks. Yep - number 1.

I was just checking out the stats and noticed the Docherty is No. 1 for marks this year - 148, 25 ahead of Jeremy Howe on 123.

How the hell did Brisbane Lions let this guy go?!?  :o

[blue4life]

I was just checking out the stats and noticed the Docherty is No. 1 for marks this year - 148, 25 ahead of Jeremy Howe on 123.

How the hell did Brisbane Lions let this guy go?!?  :o

For pick 33 no less!
It was a wonderful trade for us, one of the few pluses of the Malthouse years along with the drafting of Cripps. 
Liam Jones could well become another one.

[jeza]

Firstly,
Jack Silvagni is 18yo.
Levi Casboult is 27.
As such, we expect more from Levi than we do a teenager. Levi didn't play a game until he was 22.

Secondly,
Your %'s are out of whack. AFL website includes missed shots altogether.
Jack (15.14.4(oob) = 45.5%
Levi (23.13.7(oob) = 53.5%

8% difference between them, not 30.

Thirdly,
I've pointed out that it was one of Casboults best games. I have often said that he has the best hands in the league. When i evaluate him, i take all that into account.
2 things really rub me the wrong way with him.
- He's been in the system for long enough now. He is still struggling with the basics of the game. Mental or otherwise.
- He simply cannot be relied upon with the ball in his hands to win you the game. Who was the last bloke with a shot on goal for us yesterday? Could've put us 9 points up deep in the last quarter.

Finally,
There is no hatred of him.
Just want for the best for the club. Having a below par key forward will not take us to the ultimate success.

This is not a whack at Silvagni - I know he's 19. You're selectively choosing what to compare though to suit a completely bogus argument is what I'm talking about. Ignore the good - embellish the bad.

SOSOS: 29 shots for 4 oob = 12% of his shots go oob
Cas: 43 shots for 7 oob = 16% of his shots go oob

3 oob's in front but has taken 14 more shots... but who really cares when you're leading the comp for contested marks - except some real misery guts with an ax to grind.

Lastly - I know you hate Casboult. I can tell because instead of just acknowledging an excellent performance and leaving it at that you can't help but pick out an irrelevant rubbish stat to make a case against him. He's not perfect but he'd get a game at any other club in the comp right now and if he wasn't there we'd be properly stuffed.

[kruddler]

This is not a whack at Silvagni - I know he's 19. You're selectively choosing what to compare though to suit a completely bogus argument is what I'm talking about. Ignore the good - embellish the bad.

SOSOS: 29 shots for 4 oob = 12% of his shots go oob
Cas: 43 shots for 7 oob = 16% of his shots go oob

3 oob's in front but has taken 14 more shots... but who really cares when you're leading the comp for contested marks - except some real misery guts with an ax to grind.

Lastly - I know you hate Casboult. I can tell because instead of just acknowledging an excellent performance and leaving it at that you can't help but pick out an irrelevant rubbish stat to make a case against him. He's not perfect but he'd get a game at any other club in the comp right now and if he wasn't there we'd be properly stuffed.

I'll forgive your 'knowing i hate casboult', because your comprehension skills are not great. Here's why.
Jack is 18, not 19.

More of Casboults shots go OOB, yes he's taken more, but more go OOB. Your own %'s tell you that. What you are saying suits MY argument, not yours.

I don't buy the rhetoric that Casboult would get a game at any other club or that we'd be stuffed without him. That was the same talk we had when we were going to get rid of Fev. Our best season in recent history came the exact year after we ditched him.

Acknowledging, repeatedly, that Casboult is the best mark in the game is hardly ignoring the good you accuse me of.

Casboult played well. Haven't seen many better games from him.

Answer me this. If a team has their key forward play one of the best games they've had him play. How often does that team lose? How often does that player end up with only 1 goal to his name? The problem i have is that we are celebrating mediocrity.

Casboult tries his guts out more often than not and while he continues to do that i will pick him every game. Same reason i prefer White, Daisy, Fisher types who may not have a complete skill set. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better....and there are better out there.

[PaulP]

I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

[kruddler]

I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

Sorry, you are correct.

We equalled our output in 2010 without fev. (made finals, lost 1st week interstate by under 10 points)
Exceeded the following year.

[blue4life]

I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

Fev was a drunken yobbo but he was four times the footballer Casboult is.
Levi's played every one of his 90 odd games at full forward, averages a tick over a goal a game and has never kicked more than four in a match.
In fact in about 35 of his 90 odd games he's scored donuts.
I couldn't care less if he's a better mark than Sticks Kernahan, a full forward's job is to hit the scoreboard.

[PaulP]

Sorry, you are correct.

We equalled our output in 2010 without fev. (made finals, lost 1st week interstate by under 10 points)
Exceeded the following year.

No worries - there are many facts and figures to keep track of, we all get things mixed up sooner or later.