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Re: Football Department Review - LP - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 10:57 PM)Baggers date Wrote:.. then what hope has a 2 1/2 yr coach, not delivering, got!Sorry [member=61]Baggers[/member] I think the "Not Delivering" part is subjective rubbish, born out of impatience.
Our team is clearly playing different and better football than it was just 12 months ago. We spent decades hardly looking like we could kick a ton, now we play games in which we are 3/4 of the way to a ton in just a 1/2 of football, and it is practice that will bring the ultimate results not burning the house down again!
Re: Football Department Review - PaulP - 08-19-2021
I think if you check out the W/L of Clarkson and Hardwick after 50 games, there is a good comparison to start the conversation. They didn't look like premiership coaches at that stage of their careers either. Sheesh, doesn't Teague at least deserve a chance to prove himself, with genuine unity and support behind him ?
Re: Football Department Review - LP - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:14 PM)PaulP date Wrote:I think if you check out the W/L of Clarkson and Hardwick after 50 games, there is a good comparison to start the conversation. They didn't look like premiership coaches at that stage of their careers either. Sheesh, doesn't Teague at least deserve a chance to prove himself, with genuine unity and support behind him ?Personally, the more I read the less I think the debate is about Teague, there is a trend appearing in the media and in the various commentary that to me suggests this is more about SOS vs Liddle with Teague as the collateral damage.
Maybe Teague picked a side when the whole historical issue was breaking, and it wasn't the side SOS is coming from!
Re: Football Department Review - Baggers - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:02 PM)LP link Wrote:Sorry [member=61]Baggers[/member] I think the "Not Delivering" part is subjective rubbish, born out of impatience.
Our team is clearly playing different and better football than it was just 12 months ago. We spent decades hardly looking like we could kick a ton, now we play games in which we are 3/4 of the way to a ton in just a 1/2 of football, and it is practice that will bring the ultimate results not burning the house down again!
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Rubbish? An unusually emotive word from you.
When you state, publicly, your expected achievements for the upcoming season and fall well short of those expectations -- for whatever reason -- then you've failed to deliver. When the side you are coaching persistently and consistently folds under serious pressure from any opponent, you've failed. When you fail to respect the defensive side of the game, and your opponent, what hope have the lads under your guidance, got?
If your financial advisor had you invest your hard-earned on investment that failed to deliver, then rolled out seemingly very reasonable excuses, would you give said advisor more time? Especially considering a number of other financial advisors across town had successfully navigated the 'very reasonable excuses'.
Re: Football Department Review - Lods - 08-19-2021
We look at things like injuries, the improvement in some players, no major blowouts (prior to last week, and given the state of the lineup it was a result many predicted prior to the match). We think to ourselves
'This is all pretty much expected so why the pressure on the coach and others?"
But we look at things from a distance.
We're not sitting there in the team meetings, or mixing with the playing group.
We don't know who is mates with who.
Who belongs to which clique?
Who thinks they're not being rewarded with game time?
Who is driving the show?
We have leaders, do we also have white-ants?
So the question is...
If we can see a logical reason for our position why is there a concern that there are major issues in the football department.
Why do those who have obviously conversed more often with the players feel that a review at a very inconvenient time for coach and players is necessary.
Re: Football Department Review - LP - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Baggers date Wrote:When you state, publicly, your expected achievements for the upcoming season and fall well short of those expectations -- for whatever reason -- then you've failed to deliver.[member=61]Baggers[/member] So you want a coach who says "We won't target the finals" at the start of each season, to ensure he can retain his tenure?
Didn't Ratten die by the same method, Ratten stated his aim and expectation was to play finals and was widely derided by the media. Groundhog Day?
FWIW, I do not recall Teague making such a definitive claim other than stating every teams aim is to play finals. If I'm wrong point me to the quote and I'm happy to correct my perspective.
I do however recall Liddle making such a claim though, so the coach lives and dies by a 3rd party marketing expectation, is Teague losing his job because Liddle lost his bonus?
On that expectation, many of us at the time disagreed, we thought it was unrealistic, and our expectation was 9th to 12th, here we are at the end of a season devastated by injuries and yet we are only a game or two off that goal!
Personally, I expect every coach to state their aim is to play finals, at the start of every season, regardless of whether we think it is likely or not! It is about having no limits, and not having expectations of failure!
It seems to me many in the AFL media want to conflate building a list with building a team, one happens quite quickly the other takes time and stability. We as a club are basically heading down a path at the moment that will derail the obvious progress already made, team building progress, and we are doing it just because of impatience, I'm not surprised because we've done it before!
Re: Football Department Review - cookie2 - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:47 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Needs more than 12 months or its just going to be a stay of execution...
Could be a case of "Waiting for Clarko" ?
Re: Football Department Review - Baggers - 08-19-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:25 PM)LP link Wrote:[member=61]Baggers[/member] So you want a coach who says "We won't target the finals" at the start of each season, to ensure he can retain his tenure?
Didn't Ratten die by the same method, Ratten stated his aim and expectation was to play finals and was widely derided by the media. Groundhog Day?
FWIW, I do not recall Teague making such a definitive claim other than stating every teams aim is to play finals. If I'm wrong point me to the quote and I'm happy to correct my perspective.
I do however recall Liddle making such a claim though, so the coach lives and dies by a 3rd party marketing expectation, is Teague losing his job because Liddle lost his bonus?
On that expectation, many of us at the time disagreed, we thought it was unrealistic, and our expectation was 9th to 12th, here we are at the end of a season devastated by injuries and yet we are only a game or two off that goal!
Personally, I expect every coach to state their aim is to play finals, at the start of every season, regardless of whether we think it is likely or not! It is about having no limits, and not having expectations of failure!
It seems to me many in the AFL media want to conflate building a list with building a team, one happens quite quickly the other takes time and stability. We as a club are basically heading down a path at the moment that will derail the obvious progress already made, just because of impatience, and I'm not surprised because we've done it before!
I strongly suspect it is also the manner in which we've fallen short of the stated goal. Along with a game plan that clearly isn't up to it.
We should remember that the independent review was initiated by the now President on the back of internal feedback that we are not privy to. If he was confronted with damning information as to the dysfunction of the football dept., which is highly likely, then he has done the responsible thing - act quickly in assessing the condition of a sick patient, then when the tests return (diagnosis)... we'll assess the recommended treatments. And without knowing the internal feedback and information contained in the independent review we are all simply speculating.
Who knows, maybe the review will come back with a favourable report for The TT but damning of those around him, who he is trying to protect? We just don't know... and will need to wait. The test results are in (diagnosis complete) regarding our sick patient, now to simply wait for the recommended treatment.
Re: Football Department Review - PaulP - 08-20-2021
Both the Geelong and Richmond reviews were initiated 6 years after Thompson and Hardwick took charge, not after 2 1/2 disrupted seasons. The Geelong review was initiated in August 2006 (near the end of the season) and included everybody :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2006-08-17/geelong-announce-internal-review/1240604
It will look into administration, coaching, fitness, medical and sport science, list management, player leadership, recruiting and welfare and development.
That's how you do a review.
I understand the pro review crowd will extol the virtues of being proactive, getting on the front foot, nipping problems in the bud etc., but there is a fine line between proactive and knee jerk, and I'm not convinced our club understands the difference.
Re: Football Department Review - ElwoodBlues1 - 08-20-2021
(08-19-2021, 11:29 PM)cookie2 link Wrote:Could be a case of "Waiting for Clarko" ?Good call Cookie, if DT does survive but only gets the 12 months then that story will run all year and put DT under huge stress.