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Re: General Discussions - kruddler - 06-26-2022
@thry...
What about people born with a tail?
What about people born with an extra appendage?
Sometimes nature f**ks up.
Sometimes it's easier to see and accept it's mistakes as it appears obvious. Sometimes, less so.
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 06-26-2022
This is such a complicated issue and it's also one where it's a very individual experience.
The actual physical transitioning is only one aspect.
For many it's a relief and a release.
They may gain a feeling of 'normality' that didn't previously exist.
But, consider, for others it actually might not be the change that they hoped for, and existing troubles and feelings, don't just disappear.
The issues involved with identity changes and acceptances may present overwhelming challenges.
As a society we face the dilemma to provide the best possible support and understanding, but at the same time we have to be conscious that there may be a point where there needs to be restrictions, such as occur in sport, that don't lead to others being unfairly disadvantaged.
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 06-26-2022
(06-26-2022, 12:07 PM)kruddler link Wrote:@thry...
What about people born with a tail?
What about people born with an extra appendage?
Sometimes nature f**ks up.
Sometimes it's easier to see and accept it's mistakes as it appears obvious. Sometimes, less so.
The science will actually prove that biology made an error here and I think being born with a tail is very different to a subjective opinion of being a male born in a female body or vice versa.
The reason why I am quick to dismiss it is actually quite scientific. Feelings are subjective, and not objective, and there is no objective evidence that the body is wrong when the brain thinks it is.
Re: General Discussions - Mav - 06-27-2022
This notion that the desire to transition means someone is looking to blame their problems on their gender flies in the face of the facts. The best case for gender dysphoria being a real thing is the fact that males who have succeeded in masculine environments have been desperate to transition. Three examples that spring to mind are Caitlyn Jenner, Dani Laidley, and Cate McGregor. Each of them succeeded in environments which are just about as aggressively masculine as you could find. And they all would have known that transitioning would mean they would lose support within those environments.
In particular, Laidley successfully carved out a career as a hard man of football, earning him the nickname of Junkyard Dog. And yet he says he felt that he was in the wrong body from the age of 6.
These people put the lie to the right wing campaign to depict the transgender community as being trendy lefties, those groomed by trendy lefties, or those seeking to rort the system by transitioning.
I want to see more tolerance in the world, not less. The thought of losing my wedding tackle is disturbing to me, but live and let live. The right wing mania for carving out outgroups who can then be used to whip up fear and hate is disgusting. The new strategy the right is using to go after the gays is that the percentage of people self-identifying as gays has Increased from the good old days in the 1950s, meaning people are being infected by a social contagion rather than living according to their own nature. Consequently, they advocate harsh discrimination against them to inoculate them from this social infection. Of course, this will be wildly successful. Gays will be forced back into the closet and will no longer admit to being gay, just like in the 1950s. Job done. I’m not LGBTIQ, a woman or a person of colour but any attempt to treat those who are as lesser beings should be denounced.
Re: General Discussions - LP - 06-27-2022
(06-27-2022, 01:15 AM)Mav date Wrote:I want to see more tolerance in the world, not less.It's not about tolerance, nobody is rejecting anyone, it's about fairness and it always will be.
Highlighting how those who have transitioned previously succeeded in male dominated spaces actually further highlights how unfair it could actually be for female athletes!
Re: General Discussions - Mav - 06-27-2022
So, because they have the will to succeed, best keep them away from less determined womenfolk? I’m sure Erin Phillips would be able to meet the challenge.
By the way, you may see the only issue as being eligibility for womens’ sports but surely you realise that there are others who focus on the wider issue of whether gender reassignment is evil in itself? My comments were directed to that issue.
Re: General Discussions - Baggers - 06-27-2022
(06-26-2022, 11:39 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:So, what you're telling me, is that science doesn't care what people believe about their identity, because their biology is what nature intended them to be? Isn't that what the science tells us?
Djc what i say isn't about belief, and I think you've inferred something here and you are arguing a point with the wrong person.
Its not religious or about religion. Im Greek. We invented sexual ambiguity.
Nature has designed species that can transition organically.
Humans cannot do this.
I know one who is chronically unwell. The hormones give her headaches (born male).
When I say its just biology I mean it.
Ironically science doesn't care what people believe their identity should be. Their biology disagrees. When I state a well adjusted human accepts their body for what it is, its about self love. Imperfections and all.
Imagine being blind, or deaf, or born with a physical disability. These people don't insist there is nothing wrong with them. They simplify their life by not worrying about what they don't have, but accepting what they have, recognising that they will walk a different path than most humans and making the most of it. When my dad died at age 56, I was 22. My whole survival of that trauma was built on ACCEPTANCE of what I cannot change. Why do you think seeing people fight what they CANNOT CHANGE is something I instantly dismiss? Its not about religion, it hits me at that spot that helped me make peace with my dads passing.
I strongly suggest you have a chat with someone who has successfully and happily (often the case) transitioned to their wanted gender. And really listen to what they went through in their life and why.
Re: General Discussions - LP - 06-27-2022
(06-27-2022, 01:41 AM)Mav date Wrote:I’m sure Erin Phillips would be able to meet the challenge.No she wouldn't that is an entirely fake assertion. I've experienced first-hand a senior VFLW team be completely disassembled by a rather average U15 boys squad, the assertion that the girls are somehow competitive in a physically competitive sport of any sort is bogus to the nth degree. It's a fantasy not a reality, and for that reason I think society needs to preserve a pathway to elite level sport for females!
The falsity is of course exposed in physically demanding sports that aren't competitive, for example the world's best female marathon runner would literally finish kilometres behind the men. But apparently we won't ever find out, because by recent Olympic standards the fastest female in recent times made (~2:23), and didn't even meet the male qualifying time which was set at (~2:11)!
Re: General Discussions - LP - 06-27-2022
(06-27-2022, 01:41 AM)Mav date Wrote:By the way, you may see the only issue as being eligibility for womens’ sports but surely you realise that there are others who focus on the wider issue of whether gender reassignment is evil in itself? My comments were directed to that issue.I do realise that but they are a minority opinion that carries no weight, much like the opinions of racists, much like the opinions of religious fundamentalists being played out now in the US!
The nutters get their moment in the sun, but it won't last because they will move onto the next group and eventually shoot themselves in the foot, the events are the last throws of a subspecies going extinct!
Re: General Discussions - Mav - 06-27-2022
How would an U/15 boys team fare against a VFLW squad if the players on the boys team had identical football experience as the women and the boys had all been castrated and injected with estrogen?