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+--- Thread: General Discussions (/thread-4803.html)
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Re: General Discussions - LP - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 02:57 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Simple.As a hypothetical how long do you think that would last?
In the name of equality, lets take gender out of sports and open each competition to all genders rather than specify man/woman.
May the best man win.
It would be a hell of a tough lesson to learn for some people, and it would take the term misogynist to a whole new level! :o
Re: General Discussions - madbluboy - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 02:57 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Simple.
In the name of equality, lets take gender out of sports and open each competition to all genders rather than specify man/woman.
May the best man win.
Are there any female born transgenders trying to get into men's competitions?
Re: General Discussions - LP - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 04:49 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:Are there any female born transgenders trying to get into men's competitions?That question will be labelled absurd by the politically correct types, but it hints at a Fermi Transgender Paradox! ;D
How long will it before before a female transitions to male, all those steroids, but when settled still wants to go back and compete with the girls?
What a bag of worms!
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 06-24-2022
The 'Jenner Factor' is interesting.
I'm a bit of a 'Track and Field' tragic and as a struggling young 'very, very average' Decathlete my prime years coincided with Bruce Jenner's.
As a result he represented the absolute pinnacle of the sport.
He was the one we all aspired to emulate.
Now it goes without dispute that had Jenner 'transitioned' prior to puberty he/she never would have achieved that level of performance.
The unknown is how C.Jenner would have performed in female competition.
She may still have been a high performance performer...and under the guidelines adopted by FINA in swimming that would have been OK.
Here's where it gets a bit grey (and I use the term intentionally)
At Masters level of competition the athletes take such activities with a similar level of seriousness as they do at younger levels.
In fact it's quite often performers who were average athletes at Open level who excel in their older years due to maintaining a good level of fitness and training.
Jenner is now in her 70s.
I'm not sure of her level of fitness but I'd be pretty confident in guessing that simply through maintaining a minimum level, and given her technical 'muscle memory', she would be more than just competitive and challenge some of the records in the female 70-75 divison (especially in events like the throws.)
Some of us participate in sport for the fun of it.
But at all levels we have some folks for who such activities are a major part of their life.
It seems to be at the level just below 'elite' where the major issues and resentment occur.
The issue for me seems to be that while there is concern for the mental health of the transitioning athlete, there also needs to be concern for the mental health of the athletes they compete against.
I'm not sure how you balance that.
Open competition isn't the answer.
The fact is that this only goes in the one direction in terms of concern...the male transitioning to a female.
Former females competing in male competition isn't an issue.
The only realistic solution though would seem to be a 'trans specific' competition, or in fact two sets of competitions.
Then you probably run into the problem of lack of numbers to make this viable.
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 04:45 AM)LP link Wrote:As a hypothetical how long do you think that would last?
It would be a hell of a tough lesson to learn for some people, and it would take the term misogynist to a whole new level! :o
What would occur organically though, is that the cream would rise to the top.
People would hire the best athlete available to compete, man woman or other at every level.
It would be true market equality.
This would never fly though. Its far too fair and would mean not enough participation by the people who bleat about systemic inequality and somehow confuse equity with equality.
Re: General Discussions - DJC - 06-24-2022
As many commentators have stated, the issue is fairness versus equality and I think fairness trumps equality.
Re: General Discussions - kruddler - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 07:22 AM)DJC link Wrote:As many commentators have stated, the issue is fairness versus equality and I think fairness trumps equality.Its a funny * to the gender equality debate.
"We want equality*"
*unless its unfair to have it.
Re: General Discussions - Baggers - 06-24-2022
One of those discussions where I think I'd rather fill a wheelbarrow with cats than get involved. IMHO I'm more than happy to defer to the thoughts, opinions and perceptions of those directly involved - women, trans folks and theys.
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 08:53 AM)Baggers link Wrote:One of those discussions where I think I'd rather fill a wheelbarrow with cats than get involved. IMHO I'm more than happy to defer to the thoughts, opinions and perceptions of those directly involved - women, trans folks and theys.
I guess the problem is that within those three groups you have the whole spectrum of thoughts, opinions and perceptions.
It's one of those situations where some group will be disappointed by decisions made.
Re: General Discussions - Baggers - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 09:13 AM)Lods link Wrote:I guess the problem is that within those three groups you have the whole spectrum of thoughts, opinions and perceptions.
It's one of those situations where some group will be disappointed by decisions made.
Yep. I'll stick with the cats and the wheelbarrow and watch those directly involved duke it out.