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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon (/thread-6534.html)
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - LP - 06-12-2024
Hitouts have always been and are largely worthless, directing where the football goes oddly has very little to do with actually winning the hitout and it's about positioning, But too many fans hear rhetoric like that and infer "rucks are worthless"!
In ruck work the 2nd efforts are worth 10x whatever hitouts they may get, that is why having a ruck who only wins taps and does little else is mostly worthless. Winning taps might make life a little easier for some of the Mids but it will torch the team, the difference in importance is why Kreuzer went No.1 and Warnock was a spud. Pitto is 5x the player this season because of how he follows up his initial effort.
As I've mentioned many times, you can control the stoppages by the way you jump, angle of approach, etc., etc.., Where an opponent will direct the footy is massively influenced by your own ruck even if your own ruck isn't winning taps. Which side of the body you target, whether you turn left or right, whether you use your left or right arm, will all alter the opponents positioning and tactics.
Any stat measuring an individual that depends on the actions of a 3rd party is next to useless, as a measure of rucks alone the Hitout to Adv stat is much the same, it's like blaming or crediting a Mids for a small forward who either drops or marks on the chest.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - Lods - 06-12-2024
Just out of curiousity...
We lost the hit-outs 48-23.
What were the 'hitouts to advantage' stats
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - tonyo - 06-13-2024
(06-12-2024, 10:30 PM)Lods date Wrote:Just out of curiousity...Goldstein basically blocked de Koning at every bounce - he only got penalised for it once, but it must have happened at least 10 times - turned his back on TDK and camped under the ball. As such, his hitouts were largely rubbish. Once the ball hit the deck, TDK massacred him.
We lost the hit-outs 48-23.
What were the 'hitouts to advantage' stats
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - LP - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 12:41 AM)tonyo date Wrote:Goldstein basically blocked de Koning at every bounce - he only got penalised for it once, but it must have happened at least 10 times - turned his back on TDK and camped under the ball. As such, his hitouts were largely rubbish. Once the ball hit the deck, TDK massacred him.That tactic is largely valid under the current rules / interpretation, which is why I have previously warned about the consequences of the new interpretation. You can block and as long as you touch the footy you'll be safe.
While it delivered CheatsFC no advantage as they only really have the one viable inside Mid, I'm surprised they failed to give Stringer a Midfield run, it won't be ineffective if a club with some stronger Mids does it to TDK. So it must be a horses for courses approach, and at times we will need Pitto in to wrestle the opposition.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - kruddler - 06-13-2024
(06-12-2024, 10:30 PM)Lods link Wrote:Just out of curiousity...
We lost the hit-outs 48-23.
What were the 'hitouts to advantage' stats
Player - HTA - RC - HTA/RC% - (HO) - Clearances
De Koning - 4 - 71 - 5.6% - (19) - 11
Goldstein - 6 - 73 - 8.2% - (35) - 9
2m Peter - 2 - 27 - 7.4% - (13) - 4
H. McKay - 1 - 15 - 6.7% - (3) - 0
Cripps - 1 - 8 - 12.5% - (1) - 7
De Koning was the least effective ruck from everyone who attended a ruck contest in terms of HTA, but his clearances were through the roof.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - pew2 - 06-13-2024
one more thing going by talk back on sen ess supporters are very confident they can beat us ,redman /draper next time. Hodge is another 1 who thinks that to ,My belief is that alot of water to go under bridge
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - DJC - 06-13-2024
I just replayed the first quarter and took note of the ruck contests.
Goldstein: 17 ruck contests, 2 hitouts, 0 HTA, 3 clearances
De Koning: 10 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA, 1 clean possession, 1 free kick, 2 clearances
Wright: 4 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA*
McKay: 6 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA
Cripps: 3 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA
Kennedy: 2 ruck contests, 0 hitouts
*This was probably a fortuitous HTA in that Wright attempted to take clean possession and the ball ricocheted to his teammate.
Cripps just shaded Wright as the most effective ruckman on the ground in the first quarter if you're judging by HTA.
In the absence of HTAs, Goldstein was more effective in the ruck than De Koning in that he had three clearances to De Koning's two. However, Goldstein's clearances were from second efforts after the ball had gone to ground. De Koning's clearances were from a clean possession and a free kick in the ruck contest.
It's interesting that there were only 10 hitouts from 21 ruck contests
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - crashlander - 06-13-2024
(06-12-2024, 10:30 PM)Lods link Wrote:Just out of curiousity...Goldstein won 6 to 4.
We lost the hit-outs 48-23.
What were the 'hitouts to advantage' stats
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - crashlander - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 12:41 AM)tonyo link Wrote:Goldstein basically blocked de Koning at every bounce - he only got penalised for it once, but it must have happened at least 10 times - turned his back on TDK and camped under the ball. As such, his hitouts were largely rubbish. Once the ball hit the deck, TDK massacred him.Something you also see in the 2's. Unfortunately Mirkov doesn't have the same footy IQ and doesn't get the ball like de Koning does, but he gets shepherded out all the time.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - crashlander - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 05:34 AM)pew2 link Wrote:one more thing going by talk back on sen ess supporters are very confident they can beat us ,redman /draper next time. Hodge is another 1 who thinks that to ,My belief is that alot of water to go under bridgeWe'll have Pittonet, Cerra & co back. Pitto is a better ruckman than Draper and hasn't played much against the Drug Cheats. Cerra is the missing piece of our present midfield puzzle, although I hope to see us get more pace in there before too much longer. Redman won't matter when the our clearances go down Charlie's throat.