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+--- Thread: Russian Ukraine War (/thread-5823.html)
Re: Russian Ukraine War - Mav - 01-04-2023
Why would anyone station troops next to an ammo dump? After the Russians lost somewhere between 63 and 400 troops by doing so, I expected Lavrov to accuse the Ukrainians of war crimes. How dare they bomb military targets? The Russians don’t do that.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - mateinone - 01-18-2023
There has been discussion around Putin being ill and who would be his replacement, one person who without any doubt is trying to muscle into a position to take power is Prighozin
Following is his comments around the closure of Youtube in Russia.
If you look at his comments (the website is in Russian, but the using an index like Yandex Translate will give the most accurate translation), it becomes very obvious that Russia is hurtling back towards the days of the USSR. It was already heading steadily in this direction and whilst it won't have any of the benefits of a communist state, it is going to towards total control and make look to end up blocking the borders to stop people leaving.
https://lenta.ru/news/2023/01/18/prigozhin_yout/
The following is an example of the types of prisoners they are released to fight and will now be released back into society, because if they agreed to kill Ukrainians they deserve to be free.
https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-64178320
Prighozin is quite possibly the most dangerous man in Russia and if he took over Russia after Putin, that would put him as the most dangerous man in the world. The reports that are coming out of Ukraine of the way he is using the prisoners is an example of just how brutal he is. One example is that they are basically sent forward in numbers to be shot and killed, if they take a backwards step or drop to take cover instead of moving forward, the Wagner mercenaries shoot them as a warning to others. The idea is that buy moving forward they can uncover the positions of the Ukrainian shooting at the "bait".
Now I generally don't have a lot of pity for people like the guy mentioned in the article above as I think he deserves to rot in jail, but no one deserves to be used as human bait, it is just barbaric.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - Thryleon - 01-19-2023
That is barbaric.
On a seperate but related topic, is there any real benefit in removing the flags of Russian athletes at the Australian Open?
Whilst I understand that we are doing this to show solidarity, I saw a facebook debate recently where some fans of the Russian players brought flags into the stadium and there was a bit of outrage about it.
Sure the opponent to the Russian player was Ukrainian, and Tennis Australia's official stance has been to remove Russian flags next to the players (they do represent themselves after all and not nations in these tournaments) but when I saw the response re fans not showing respect by carrying the Russian flag in support of the Russian opponent.
Now whilst I can appreciate that this is an inflammatory situation, how do we feel about this? Should people not be able to support a Russian athlete at the Australian open?
I found myself wondering why the backlash. There will always be the idea that someone is unhappy to see a flag of another nation somewhere, but provided they arent making a political statement with it, or that flag doesnt represent something like the Nazi flag (without having a better example off the top of my head at the minute) shouldnt this be fair play?
Just curious, and checking what people's thought process is here.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - DJC - 01-19-2023
I heard one of the flag wavers on the wireless. He said that he was opposed to the invasion of Ukraine but waving the Russian flag was meant to represent all of the good things about Russia. He sounded genuine but what relevance does that have to supporting a tennis player. I imagine that the Ukrainian player wouldn't have been thrilled to see the invader's flag.
Open Tennis is not a team sport and players' countries of origin aren't really relevant. I would ban all national flags from the Australian Open and remove all references to players' countries of origin. The Davis, Hopman and Billie Jean King Cups are a different kettle of worms and supporting national teams is the name of the game.
PS St Kilda changed its colours from red, yellow and black during World War One.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - crashlander - 01-19-2023
(01-19-2023, 01:43 AM)DJC link Wrote:I heard one of the flag wavers on the wireless. He said that he was opposed to the invasion of Ukraine but waving the Russian flag was meant to represent all of the good things about Russia. He sounded genuine but what relevance does that have to supporting a tennis player. I imagine that the Ukrainian player wouldn't have been thrilled to see the invader's flag.And then Germany changed its colours to black, red and yellow. I always wondered about that.
Open Tennis is not a team sport and players' countries of origin aren't really relevant. I would ban all national flags from the Australian Open and remove all references to players' countries of origin. The Davis, Hopman and Billie Jean King Cups are a different kettle of worms and supporting national teams is the name of the game.
PS St Kilda changed its colours from red, yellow and black during World War One.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - Mav - 01-19-2023
Have you noticed the Taiwanese players have been forced to play under the Chinese Taipei banner and the flag is a weird squiggle on a white flag? That’s the flag Taiwan is allowed to compete under at the Olympics to keep China happy.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - mateinone - 01-20-2023
(01-19-2023, 12:52 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Now whilst I can appreciate that this is an inflammatory situation, how do we feel about this? Should people not be able to support a Russian athlete at the Australian open?
I found myself wondering why the backlash. There will always be the idea that someone is unhappy to see a flag of another nation somewhere, but provided they arent making a political statement with it, or that flag doesnt represent something like the Nazi flag (without having a better example off the top of my head at the minute) shouldnt this be fair play?
Just curious, and checking what people's thought process is here.
Personally I understand it, but I don't really like it either (banning flags).
I think the problem is that either way there is the potential for one of 2 groups to be ostracized and that the Aus Open (and other events) need to decide which group will be impacted.
It is true that Russians should be able to support Russian athletes with pride, they should be able to show pride in their heritage and their homeland without prejudice and supporting the Russian flag is different to supporting the Z symbol or even the Soviet flag which would be inappropriate as it could be used to insinuate that Moscow should control Kiev.
However what is probable is that a lot of people would use these flags as a symbol of aggression as well towards Ukrainian players and this is unacceptable. Already a number of Ukrainians have indicated they didn't even want to face a Russian athlete and this situation is, of course, understandable, but then seeing the flag of the aggressor that is raising their flag above your cities after killing your citizens, is really intolerable.
Perhaps the Australian Open (and other events) could consider are more measured approach and allow the Russian flag to be displayed only in games with Russian competitors and only when a Ukrainian is not one of the players on the court. Whilst Ukrainians would rather see the flag totally banished, I personally in a nation of free speech (with the exception of hate speech etc), would prefer to see this approach, which respects both the feelings of Ukrainian athletes and the rights of the spectators.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - northernblue - 01-20-2023
Mi1, AO has nothing to do with nationalities, they are all individual athletes and they should be supported and demonised on their merits.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - mateinone - 01-20-2023
Absolutely the same as in many sports, but in most sports Russian and Belorussian athletes need to play under a neutral flag, which they are doing in all tennis events.
This doesn't stop patriotic supporters displaying flags to support their countrymen and women.
All of which is quite reasonable, but this conflict creates a most unusual circumstance requiring an unusual response.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - kruddler - 01-20-2023
Pride is a deadly sin.
Pride in ones country is something that can be had without forcing it upon others with the introduction of a flag. This is where the issue is.
Support your player, but just like the US and Old Glory, shoving your national flag in peoples faces constantly will lead to issues and it all stems back to pride.
Read the room at least.