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+--- Thread: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats (/thread-5186.html)
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - Gointocarlton - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 01:10 PM)JonDorotich link Wrote:Surely the jury is still out in relation to McGovern, Cunningham, Dow and SPS?Not my jury
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - Lods - 04-26-2021
Here's the contradiction for me. We're told players like Dow, O'Brien, Setterfield, Stocker, Cunningham and the like just need to get some consistent game time.
Then we're told...and injuries have a big impact.on our performances.
If these players are struggling for game time when we have a big injury list wont it be the case that they will find it even harder to get games once we have closer to a full list to choose from.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - capcom - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 12:45 PM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:SOS busts (IMO) ??=Jury is out
Dow
Obrien
SPS
Kennedy??
McGovern
Lang
Kemp??
Betts (not his fault, the Richmond bloke is blame for that one)
Plowman
Marchbank
Fisher??
Macreadie
Cunningham
Polson
Williamson??
Fasolo
Glass-McCasker R
Gallucci R
Pat Kerr
LeBois R
Schumacher
Garlett
Oshea
Shaw R
ODwyer
B Silvagni
Goddard R
Bugg R
Deluca
Honey R??
F Phillips R
At least we can't blame him for Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - shawny - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 10:18 AM)capcom link Wrote:Silvagni? I will NEVER give him credit for recruiting obvious number one picks that any idiot would have nominated. Look a little deeper for his busts ... there's a lot of them.
That's my strong opinion and nobody is about to change it. He was woeful
Yep 100% agree.
The best list managers made there name selecting players that had an impact out of the first round as well as having a good percentage with the first rounders. Take away out number 1 no brainer picks and SOS time was a fail.
You will struggle to find one SOS picked out of the first round that has really made an impact. Maybe you could argue Jack but that’s it.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - shawny - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 11:21 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Well....at least you're open minded and willing to listen to reason. :
Let me try anyway.
Are you happy with Harry McKay? I'll assume, yes.
"Oh but it was an obvious choice" you might say.
Sure, if you wanna go down that path......even though 9 players were picked before him. How is #2 Josh Schache going. An 'obvious' choice behind Weitering....but i digress.
However, you realise that we never had the pick we used to get Harry McKay. So where did we get it from?
Its convoluted, so i'll make it as easy as i can.
Trade 1:
Lachie Henderson -> Geelong 1st round pick
Trade 2:
Geelong 1st round pick + Pick 28 + Pick 77 + Pick 95 -> Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman, Liam Sumner + Pick 8.
Trade 3.
Andrew Phillips + pick 61 + Pick 72 -> Pick 57 + Pick 70
Trade 4.
Pick 54 + Pick 63 -> Marc Pittonet + Pick 61
That Pick 8. got pushed back to pick 10 after some bids were matched, but that is the selection we used for Harry McKay.
So....in conclusion
Lachie Henderson being traded out
=
Lachie Plowman
Marc Pittonet
Harry McKay
(as well as Lamb, Sumner and a couple years out of Phillips)
You can thank Silvagni for that.
CBF working out where Charlie Curnows pick came from, but at a guess its from Zach Tuohy trade.
So don't judge Silvagni on the players that were picked up mid or late, and exclude the 'early obvious' picks, because he is the reason we had those early obvious picks and he plucked them out of thin air most of the time.
Throw enough punches in the dark and eventually you hit something. He was a massive fail when you look at sheet number of first and second round picks we had.
If you want to pat him on the back for the few like Harry that worked you are setting the bar very very low imo.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - Lods - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 09:14 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Weitering, Curnow, McKay....then added smaller types SPS, Cuningham, Dow, Obrien, Walsh etc. He had a good mix of talls/smalls as backups. Overall a balanced list.
I don't think many are questioning Silvagni's skill when it comes to accumulating picks.
He was very, very good.
That was his strength.
But folks won't remember that.
It's what he did with those picks that he'll ultimately be judged by
Weitering, Curnow and McKay weren't hard choices in that first draft.
Bozo the clown could have picked them.
It's the Cunningham, Dow, O Brien, even SPS choices that the scrutiny is on.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - Professer E - 04-26-2021
Blowing bags of earlish picks on GWS players, none of which have become topliners has really hurt as well. Jaksch anyone. Then there's Moneybags... Gees we coughed up big for that clown.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - northernblue - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 10:42 PM)Professer E link Wrote:Blowing bags of earlish picks on GWS players, none of which have become topliners has really hurt as well. Jaksch anyone. Then there's Moneybags... Gees we coughed up big for that clown.
To be fair to sos, sure he drafted Jaksch, but he pissed him off twice...
Drafted to GWS, traded to cfc and then delisted by sos.
At least blame him for the correct bananas if you’re going to pot him...
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - kruddler - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 10:33 PM)Lods link Wrote:I don't think many are questioning Silvagni's skill when it comes to accumulating picks.Ok....so everyone agrees that silvagni can make something out of nothing.
He was very, very good.
That was his strength.
But folks won't remember that.
It's what he did with those picks that he'll ultimately be judged by
Weitering, Curnow and McKay weren't hard choices in that first draft.
Bozo the clown could have picked them.
It's the Cunningham, Dow, O Brien, even SPS choices that the scrutiny is on.
So let's try it this way....
How many games of these kids did silvagni see personally? You'd think that we have an army of scouts all putting in their 2 bobs worth yeah. Given the importance of the top picks, sos would personally oversee them, live, rather than same bloke that may or may not be around at pick 59. Makes sense.
So if we have a good track record of high picks, and a poor one elsewhere, perhaps we need to look at our extended recruiting network that is feeding sos this info?
He is only 1 man after all.
Personally I don't think his (non obvious) picks are as bad as people make out. Someone will always be able to point to a player who came after our pick who is better.....and it's the same for every club. Even still, a talented 18yo and an afl ready player require some kind of development in-between getting drafted and playing. Is that sos' fault too?
Why has nobody comments on my Austin (im)balanced list points? Easier to blame the last guy.
Again, looking at weitering curnow and Harry.
Who went pick 2, Josh shache. Pick 2....what's he done?! Nobody complaining about Brisbane's recruiter for stuffing up the obvious choice.
It's convenient to discredit the obvious successes without realising there are plenty other obvious ones that other teams got wrong.
Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats - kruddler - 04-26-2021
(04-26-2021, 10:19 PM)shawny link Wrote:Throw enough punches in the dark and eventually you hit something. He was a massive fail when you look at sheet number of first and second round picks we had.We traded out a 28yo who was average and we got a 10+ year key forward, a #1 ruck and a staple of our defence (multiple top 5 b+f results)
If you want to pat him on the back for the few like Harry that worked you are setting the bar very very low imo.
That's a low bar?
Jack Martin for.....nothing
Multiple former first round picks for sfa...a lot of which didn't work, but they cost us nothing so no big deal.
There's a reason our 2nd and 3rd round draftees are not at the forefront of our minds in terms of talent.....we upgraded a lot of them to first rounders and other players!