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+--- Thread: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey (/thread-3266.html)
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - LP - 05-15-2017
(05-15-2017, 10:01 PM)jeza link Wrote:Doc, Marchbank, Plowman, Williamson, Byrne... then Rowe, Silvagni, White aren't young but they aren't 34 either.
You can't form the best defence in the afl then immediately pull it apart because they aren't all 18.
We need to worry about getting the mids working as well.
That is a very good point Jeza, also note the top teams tend to have a defence full of players in the last few years of their career.
Hawthorn have made a habit of finding aging/mature defenders or players and turning them into the cornerstone of a solid defence. In defence I'm not taking this too literally, because I think stoppage setups have a defensive aspect. There is no doubt it's the older blokes that often setup on the defensive side of stoppages which Hawthorn miss most this year!
They are two old blokes short! ;DIs Silvagni our first along those lines?
It's an important consideration, seeing what the loss of two experienced players has done to a club like Hawthorn. Yet we apparently have too many and need to cut them now, what will that do to us? :o
Finally, Rowe was a late starter, I have no idea why Lyon wasn't playing Silvagni but Ross is a different sort of cat, White's a year younger again and Simmo looks like he could play another year or two. Over time we'll naturally see Weitering, Plowman, Byrne and Marchbank displace them and the club will bring in more youth but they look good to go for a few years yet.
We may even find Sheehan and Jones making inroads on the defensive side of things, and Lamb and Sumner look a class about the others at VFL level in regards to mids. Form shows our list is not as bad as everybody predicts. The media are saying we'll have another massive list turnover, I suspect not! For me BB is two or three pieces of the puzzle away from having significant options.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - maxm68 - 05-15-2017
(05-15-2017, 09:54 PM)LP link Wrote:It's a pity, I was hoping BB would work out.
There is no way he'll still be at the club in 3 or 4 years if we aren't top 8 next year.
It's probably sad but it's mostly a reality!
In my best John McEnroe voice I say..."You cannot be serious"
Are you saying Bolts is in the same position as Buckley ? Finals next year or he's gone ?
Top 8 next year would ne nice but I'm thinking the year after... but like I said... who knows ?
Acos is 30 next month and Rowe is 30 in November... The point I'm trying to get across is Weitering will be / or should be our star backman for the next 10 years .... he should be there now and we should be building it around him... He'd be walking taller with Acos next him instead of getting smashed in the forward line.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - malo - 05-15-2017
(05-15-2017, 10:41 PM)maxm68 link Wrote:In my best John McEnroe voice I say..."You cannot be serious"
Are you saying Bolts is in the same position as Buckley ? Finals next year or he's gone ?
Top 8 next year would ne nice but I'm thinking the year after... but like I said... who knows ?
Acos is 30 next month and Rowe is 30 in November... The point I'm trying to get across is Weitering will be / or should be our star backman for the next 10 years .... he should be there now and we should be building it around him... He'd be walking taller with Acos next him instead of getting smashed in the forward line.
I sense some tongue in cheek .....but I could be wrong.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - Baggers - 05-15-2017
(05-15-2017, 01:56 PM)cookie2 link Wrote:Agree about Jaksch. I would definitely like to see him given another try before the final decision is made.
He's probably earned it re goals. My concern is how he will do against big blokes his own size, that'll be the test for him... and when the aggot hits the deck. His lack of mobility (except in straight lines) has always worried me but very, very happy to see him get a senior gig. Then we'll know.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - LP - 05-16-2017
(05-15-2017, 10:41 PM)maxm68 link Wrote:In my best John McEnroe voice I say..."You cannot be serious"No, Buckley is gone this year if Collingwood miss the eight.
Are you saying Bolts is in the same position as Buckley ? Finals next year or he's gone ?
If it's not looking like we are top eight by late next season BB is also in a lot of trouble long term.
There is also world of difference between making the top eight and being serious finals contenders. For BB to confidently retain his job long term we need to be top eight and looking like a serious finals contenders well before 2020. No matter how much you think the club has changed, football isn't that patient. Clarkson was rescued by a miracle, BB will need something similar if our progress is too slow! It's just the way it is, and the coaches accept it.
(05-15-2017, 10:41 PM)maxm68 link Wrote:Acos is 30 next month and Rowe is 30 in November... The point I'm trying to get across is Weitering will be / or should be our star backman for the next 10 years .... he should be there now and we should be building it around him... He'd be walking taller with Acos next him instead of getting smashed in the forward line.Those guys can easily play to mid 30s if they have the mindset, injury and physical conditioning is no longer the main issue.
Weitering should be playing next to them now, doing what he does best which is intercept marking like Marchbank and Docherty.
You don't have to displace the old guys for Weitering to be in defense, playing on guerrillas like Rowe and ACoS is not Weiterings gig, that makes the old guys very useful!
As I've stated many times before, you don't go forward by offloading guys who can get a game, it's the ones who can't get a game that are the problem! You want to write off a players who so far this season have stitched up Hogan, Franklin, Daniher, Moore, Jack Riewoldt. It was only really the GC game that Lynch got hold of our tall defenders, and the Port talls benefited from a rampant Port midfield.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - maxm68 - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 01:27 AM)LP link Wrote:No, Buckley is gone this year if Collingwood miss the eight.
If it's not looking like we are top eight by late next season BB is also in a lot of trouble long term.
There is also world of difference between making the top eight and being serious finals contenders. For BB to confidently retain his job long term we need to be top eight and looking like a serious finals contenders well before 2020. No matter how much you think the club has changed, football isn't that patient. Clarkson was rescued by a miracle, BB will need something similar if our progress is too slow! It's just the way it is, and the coaches accept it.
Those guys can easily play to mid 30s if they have the mindset, injury and physical conditioning is no longer the main issue.
Weitering should be playing next to them now, doing what he does best which is intercept marking like Marchbank and Docherty.
You don't have to displace the old guys for Weitering to be in defense, playing on guerrillas like Rowe and ACoS is not Weiterings gig, that makes the old guys very useful!
As I've stated many times before, you don't go forward by offloading guys who can get a game, it's the ones who can't get a game that are the problem! You want to write off a players who so far this season have stitched up Hogan, Franklin, Daniher, Moore, Jack Riewoldt. It was only really the GC game that Lynch got hold of our tall defenders, and the Port talls benefited from a rampant Port midfield.
I'm pretty sure Bolton is safe for a few more years before he's under Buckley type pressure to make finals...... next year would be good though.
I didn't say we should offload Rowe and Acos Now ... I said they wouldn't play in our ( unless we perform some sort of miracle ) next flag. I agree Weitering should be down back with those big bodies backing him up for now.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - Thryleon - 05-16-2017
(05-15-2017, 09:54 PM)LP link Wrote:It's a pity, I was hoping BB would work out.
There is no way he'll still be at the club in 3 or 4 years if we aren't top 8 next year.
It's probably sad but it's mostly a reality!
We have no idea how slowly or quickly it will happen, but I can forecast the following based on a fair opinion.
If we don't firm into the finals football (top 8 not necessarily 4)/premiership conversation by the end of 2018/19, we wont be in it by the end of 2020 either IMHO because following the KPI's weekly of where we are at, the blokes that are currently doing our heavy lifting will be tapering off in their ability to contribute in those years and the youngsters will either have kicked on and will be pushing them out of the side, or they will be complementing them over the next 2 years meaning we will catapult or stay roughly where we are for the next few years.
We will be a sneaky chance to pinch a flag next year or the year after, but we likely wont really kick on till 2021/2022, following the Hawthorn performance indicator.
They pinched 2008 early, and then had a couple of so so seasons ravaged by some bad luck and injury before spending quite some time at the top, converting 3 into flags. Thats the sort of model we seem to be working towards.
I don't see Bolton being under any real pressure to perform or produce results, because we seem to have a good grasp on where we are at, and where we are going.
Contrary to belief, its not the results you get that should dictate whether you are doing a good job, but how you go about it. Bolton irrespective of what results he has been getting, has been consistent in putting together a framework, where people see reward, recognition, value for their efforts, and also developement of individuals, irrespective of the results being achieved.
In a perfect world, that is enough to show that he is doing the right things. The journey and all the tag lines that come from it, looks like a PR fluff piece, and if we are not going all that well, will be how it will be considered and could easily draw some real criticism, but so long as Bolton just sticks to process, policy and procedure, then we and he will be assured of his job for the next 10 years IMHO. The test of Bolton will be how we and he respond if the processes and policies need review. If he does okay and puts sustainable ideals and methodology in place, its pretty hard to really complain about him IMHO.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - pinot - 05-16-2017
(05-15-2017, 11:56 PM)Baggers link Wrote:He's probably earned it re goals. My concern is how he will do against big blokes his own size, that'll be the test for him... and when the aggot hits the deck. His lack of mobility (except in straight lines) has always worried me but very, very happy to see him get a senior gig. Then we'll know.
Jaksc will do ok rather than starring - all you want him to do is present and present some more... run down the wings and present and take grabs.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - jeza - 05-16-2017
(05-15-2017, 10:41 PM)maxm68 link Wrote:In my best John McEnroe voice I say..."You cannot be serious"
Are you saying Bolts is in the same position as Buckley ? Finals next year or he's gone ?
Top 8 next year would ne nice but I'm thinking the year after... but like I said... who knows ?
Acos is 30 next month and Rowe is 30 in November... The point I'm trying to get across is Weitering will be / or should be our star backman for the next 10 years .... he should be there now and we should be building it around him... He'd be walking taller with Acos next him instead of getting smashed in the forward line.
Maybe... but I'd far prefer he was our star FF for the next 10 years.
Macreadie and Marchbank look like our key backs for the next 10 years - we've got a really exciting mix of youngsters to go with the couple of older guys.
Jones, JGM, Jack Silvagni could end up a backman, Jaksch plays back... there are possibilities beyond Weitering. He is showing little spells here and there where he looks like a gun forward in the making. In our forward line it isn't easy (carp delivery) and he is young and keeps copping corkies and it's a lot harder to make it as a key forward. Why give up on it now to insert him into the current high functioning backline? If his form drops give him a week off or some time in the 2s.
Re: VFL 2017: Rd 5: Northern Blues vs Casey - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-16-2017
(05-15-2017, 10:01 PM)jeza link Wrote:Doc, Marchbank, Plowman, Williamson, Byrne... then Rowe, Silvagni, White aren't young but they aren't 34 either.
You can't form the best defence in the afl then immediately pull it apart because they aren't all 18.
We need to worry about getting the mids working as well.
x2..Mids is where we need to build a bigger better group..