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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn (/thread-6623.html)
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Thryleon - 08-11-2024
(08-11-2024, 08:56 PM)Lods link Wrote:When we suffer a humiliating loss, we all look for answers as to how that could have occurred.we lost 3 players by half time and then a coleman medalist 3 minutes into the third quarter.
Was it lack of run, lack of pressure, coaching inadequacies or lack of depth?
Sometimes the right answer is the most obvious one.
It’s injuries!!
Every aspect of the loss can be traced back to injuries.
When you lose a player to injury you don‘t just lose that player.
You lose a part of every other player who has to sacrifice a part of their contribution to cover that absence.
The “one soldier out, one soldier in.” is another bit of nonsense. The replacement player is nearly always a lesser player. The injured player is ahead of them and in the side, either in terms of ability or what they offer in terms of team structure.
If everyone else has to step up, especially with ‘in-game’ injuries –
You lose 'run' through fatigue.
Your ability to get to contests and to apply pressure is affected by fatigue
Coaching options are less.
Your depth is challenged.
…and all that presents mental and physical challenges for the players not directly affected by injury.
That’s with one injury.
Now multiply that by a dozen, either injured pre-match or during the game…and then add in the players playing injured for weeks on end... and you’re in strife.
We’re in deep strife, for no other reason than we are decimated.
We were down to one true rotation on the bench for almost 3 quarters of the game.
That's the story behind our devastating loss yesterday but the run up to that story happened earlier in the season at team selection.
Vfl players banging the door down, but coming in as a sub, getting 20 minutes to show their wares as a sub then getting dropped again (jack carroll and jaxon binns).
Players that were standing up getting dropped after one game whilst bringing back under done players and having guys that weren't performing in the team.
Robs the team of morale and aspiration.
We probably should have rotated the squad a bit more in the lesser roles rather than bring marchbank in and out. Drop Lewis young. Binns got a cameo against Geelong and then was banished back to the vfl. Hsure he isn't the answer and isn't ready but maybe with 5 games under his belt we'd know for sure whether he was up to it and he wouldn't have been any worse than cotters who had a filthy second half of the season.
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Lods - 08-11-2024
Jordan Boyd, with no possessions at all, hobbling to contests, just out there to fill a spot and maybe take an opponent :
highlighted the dire nature of our situation.Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - townsendcalling - 08-11-2024
For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least 6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Lods - 08-11-2024
(08-11-2024, 09:28 PM)townsendcalling link Wrote:For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least 6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.
Yep
The 'obvious' injuries we can see are one thing...the 'hidden' injuries affecting player performances we can only guess at.
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Baggers - 08-11-2024
If we're honest with ourselves, taking off the blue coloured glasses, the Dawks had our measure well before the injuries started. They had all their blokes on the same page... an entire side versus our individuals. No doubt the injuries inflated the winning margin for the Dawks but they clearly had our measure early. What Mitchell has done with a reasonable list in short time is impressive. We've been at it for years.
If we're honest with ourselves, apart from the Pussycats game (and they were out of form), we've not been consistently convincing for a very long time. If you Wikipedia 'inconsistent' you'll find an image of us.
At our best we could beat anyone, but you could say that of any of the top 10 or so sides. Our best was and is too easily quelled by opposition sides that bring serious, persistent heat - the body of evidence for this is considerable.
Leadership. Sayers and Cook seem to be doing an excellent job. All departments within the club seem to be performing well. Except the football department. Our sales, media and marketing departments seem to be delivering a sustained high level.
Leadership: Unlike some I don't see the on-field issues lying with coaching, in particular the senior coach. Is he getting the support he needs? As far as the on-field performance stuff goes, the buck stops with Brad Lloyd. Personally, I was surprised he kept his job 2 years ago when the major restructure took place. Was the Terrier a scapegoat? And let's not get started on the MC.
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Professer E - 08-11-2024
His discussion pre-game about Chuck on SEN sounded as if he couldn't run until late in the week. He was never fit. It was very desperate stakes and maybe we should have just blown it and got ready for next with fresh players. I know that's an anathema to the processes, but maybe it was the week to try a different forward set up - Kennedy, Lemmey etc
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Lods - 08-11-2024
(08-11-2024, 10:35 PM)Professer E link Wrote:His discussion pre-game about Chuck on SEN sounded as if he couldn't run until late in the week. He was never fit. It was very desperate stakes and maybe we should have just blown it and got ready for next with fresh players. I know that's an anathema to the processes, but maybe it was the week to try a different forward set up - Kennedy, Lemmey etc
The fact that they did play him probably highlights the level we're at.
'Taking a risk' with one of our most vital players (and we've been doing it for weeks) means we were in a bit of trouble before we even started.
(08-11-2024, 10:33 PM)Baggers link Wrote:If we're honest with ourselves, taking off the blue coloured glasses, the Dawks had our measure well before the injuries started. They had all their blokes on the same page... an entire side versus our individuals. No doubt the injuries inflated the winning margin for the Dawks but they clearly had our measure early.
Yep
They were the better side early on...
But a side will often be the better side early on, and the match will turn on it's head with a momentum switch.
What the injuries meant was that there was never going to be that momentum change...and as the match wore on it became even more depressing as players went down.
As well as the obvious injuries there were another couple where players felt for knees (Williams) and shoulders (Acres).
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Micky0 - 08-11-2024
(08-11-2024, 09:28 PM)townsendcalling link Wrote:For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least 6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.So the questions remain:
Who is responsible for our always-injured players being retained?
Who is responsible for putting injured players back before they’re ready?
Who is responsible for the fitness of our players?
Because that’s been a complete Fail.
Or is it a matter we recruited X amount of alwsys injured players then tried to paper over the issues until it overcame us?
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Baggers - 08-11-2024
(08-11-2024, 10:40 PM)Lods link Wrote:They were the better side early on...
But a side will often be the better side early on, and the match will turn on it's head with a momentum switch.
What the injuries meant was that there was never going to be that momentum change...and as the match wore on it became even more depressing as players went down.
As well as the obvious injuries there were another couple where players felt for knees (Williams) and shoulders (Acres).
If there's one thing the Dawks have demonstrated over the past couple of months is that their pressure and game style is sustained. Our history over most of this season is that we're terribly inconsistent. The extent of the Dawks winning margin can in part be attributed to our injury toll... but not the loss.
Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn - Professer E - 08-11-2024
I watched Voss' press conference very closely. I thought his comments about various aspects of "consistency" were illuminating. Consistency of effort, application of system, concentration and availability weren't good enough before he joins the club, and still aren't. I thought it was very insightful.