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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond (/thread-6561.html)
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - DJC - 07-01-2024
(07-01-2024, 12:02 PM)kruddler link Wrote:Have you ever one a knee?
I have, multiple times. I can feel it while I watch that.
Most of the times I've done it was due to my weight being off balance rather than contact....just like Kennedy.
Difference was, I did my ACL.
If that is your strongest argument for needed 2 rucks in the side then I rest my case.
Yes, I have done medial and lateral ligaments several times and was coaching my daughter in rep basketball when she tore her ACL - twice.
I'm not arguing for or against two rucks. I'm in the "horses for courses" camp and am quite happy with the De Koning-McKay ruck combination. I'm simply pointing out that Kennedy's MCL happened in a ruck contest against a larger player. Kennedy's injury history probably should rule him out of the ruck.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - blueboys_1 - 07-01-2024
(07-01-2024, 04:20 AM)DJC link Wrote:No it wasn't knee on knee. Chugga's leg got pinned and his knee was bent inwards; classic medial ligament scenario.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u0PitVW8a44
Hopefully it won't be as serious as last season's high-grade MCL injury.
Thanks DJC. Cannot always rely on what you hear. Hopefully not as serious as last year.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - LP - 07-01-2024
No matter what excuses get made, having valuable Mids, and even more valuable and rare Coleman Medallists, repeatedly wrestle with typically the heaviest and often the strongest opposition player will brings increased risk of injury.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - DJC - 07-02-2024
(07-01-2024, 10:03 PM)LP link Wrote:No matter what excuses get made, having valuable Mids, and even more valuable and rare Coleman Medallists, repeatedly wrestle with typically the heaviest and often the strongest opposition player will brings increased risk of injury.
If Harry had contested that hitout, he would have had a significant height and weight advantage. If Cripps had contested it, he would have matched Koschitzke for size but bettered him for strength and guile.
While Chugga’s knee buckled in a ruck contest, it could have happened in any number of contests during the course of the game, as did his MCL injury last season. The rule changes have greatly reduced the chances of ruck contest injuries but marking contests are fair game now that the hands in the back doesn’t apply.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - WASurfer - 07-02-2024
Lucky enough to get over there for the game and see a 10-goal win for a change. It certainly is a much better perspective of the whole game than you get from just watching it on TV.
The Cripps/Walsh combination would have to be one of the best in the business. The third quarter was just off the charts.
Loved the games from the second tier players again who are playing their roles perfectly.
At the game and certainly noticed the kicking efficiency of Newman, Saad and Boyd coming out of defence. For a day which was a bit wet and slippery at times, they were pinpoint.
McKay certainly gets held and scragged in marking contests and I can only remember one free kick late in the game to him that was paid.
What was noticeable was the poor second efforts from Charlie on a few occasions and one in the last quarter I reckon he was dragged for it. He came back on and kicked a goal from what was about his first real contested mark of the day. He got to plenty of marking contests but just couldn't hang onto it. He still kicked two goals but against an inexperienced backline and with plenty of ball coming in, I was sure he'd have a day out.
Loved Fantasia's game and was right behind that banana kick in the last quarter.
While it was a 10 goal margin, we'd need to be a bit more consistent and on from the start this week against GWS.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - kruddler - 07-02-2024
(07-01-2024, 10:03 PM)LP link Wrote:No matter what excuses get made, having valuable Mids, and even more valuable and rare Coleman Medallists, repeatedly wrestle with typically the heaviest and often the strongest opposition player will brings increased risk of injury.A couple things....
Firstly, when does Cripps, Kennedy or Harry get through a game without wrestling with a strong/heavy opponent? Happens every game regardless of where they play.
Hell, we've seen Durdin, Owies, Fantasia, Fogarty try and outwrestle KPD's in marking contests, sometimes 2 on 1, multiple times as well.
What happened was a complete accident due to the fact Kennedy was off balance and out of position due to the contact with Taranto. Don't make this a ruck injury because its not.
Secondly, since when has Kennedy been a 'valuable mid' ?
Over half the people on this forum have ommitted him from our best 22 in the latest incarnation.
Thats on a par with Lachie Cowan and Jack Martin in terms of cementing their place in the side.
He is a 'borderline best 22' player and its exactly those types that need multiple strings to their bow to give them a spot in the team.
Kennedy out and someone like Carroll in and we are not losing much. Truth be told, we added a mid for a small this week and probably could bring in another small to cover kennedy and not notice one bit.
FWIW, Cripps and Kosi are 3cm and 3kg difference. which is about the same difference as Cripps to Kennedy which is twice the difference from Kennedy to Walsh.
Question: Why doesn't Kennedy and Cripps' weight advantage injury midfielders every week given the relative weight difference is the same as Kosi to Kennedy?
Answer: Because it was a freak accident that was not about relative size/strength difference at all.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-02-2024
Im a Kennedy fan so maybe a bit biased but I just think when he plays along with Hewett he makes us a tougher contested and better team and helps take the pressure off Cripps and Walsh in particular. A lot of clubs would like him on their list imho and FWIW I rate him much higher than Carroll who hasnt proved to me he is a regular senior player or a player who can play the different roles Kennedy can.
Im predicting he will be missed vs GWS and make the task of winning a bit harder....be a good test for Carroll being the likely replacement.
As for his injury I thought he tripped over Taranto moving past him and then got shoved over by Kosi as he fell so Im not calling it a ruck injury but more a innocuous accident.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - kruddler - 07-02-2024
@EB...
Kennedy has he's place and i'm a fan of what he does too.
But he also has his weaknesses and his biggest one is his (lack of) pace.
Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy all playing midfield together opens us up to be hurt by speed.
Of all our mids, Kennedy would be the last one picked from our current lineup.......the caveat to that is unless he can play another role.
......which being 3rd tall / backup ruck....he has been doing. Take that away from him and he becomes less valuable as a pure mid IMO.
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-02-2024
(07-02-2024, 05:56 AM)kruddler link Wrote:@EB...Dont disagree he lacks pace but he isnt alone there and our midfield as a whole can exposed by pace as we saw vs the Swans and likewise they dont get back to help on the rebound either apart from Acres but thats the risk you take when your one wood is bigger contested mids.
Kennedy has he's place and i'm a fan of what he does too.
But he also has his weaknesses and his biggest one is his (lack of) pace.
Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy all playing midfield together opens us up to be hurt by speed.
Of all our mids, Kennedy would be the last one picked from our current lineup.......the caveat to that is unless he can play another role.
......which being 3rd tall / backup ruck....he has been doing. Take that away from him and he becomes less valuable as a pure mid IMO.
Id have Kennedy competing with Hewett as the last mid picked and some may argue vs a team like the Swans only one of them can play. I see Kennedy as having more variety in his game in roles he can play making him a bit more valuable but thats just my opinion. In terms of rucking Im not a real fan of the 3rd tall type ruck at that 190cm height and prefer to see Harry or Cripps contesting when its not Pittonet or TDK available. Kosi is 196cm or 198cm/96kg depending on which website you read and thats too big for Kennedy imo and while he wasnt injured in that ruck contest directly he shouldnt have been competing in the first place imo..
Re: AFL Rd 16 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - DJC - 07-02-2024
(07-02-2024, 04:58 AM)kruddler link Wrote:A couple things....
Firstly, when does Cripps, Kennedy or Harry get through a game without wrestling with a strong/heavy opponent? Happens every game regardless of where they play.
Hell, we've seen Durdin, Owies, Fantasia, Fogarty try and outwrestle KPD's in marking contests, sometimes 2 on 1, multiple times as well.
What happened was a complete accident due to the fact Kennedy was off balance and out of position due to the contact with Taranto. Don't make this a ruck injury because its not.
Secondly, since when has Kennedy been a 'valuable mid' ?
Over half the people on this forum have ommitted him from our best 22 in the latest incarnation.
Thats on a par with Lachie Cowan and Jack Martin in terms of cementing their place in the side.
He is a 'borderline best 22' player and its exactly those types that need multiple strings to their bow to give them a spot in the team.
Kennedy out and someone like Carroll in and we are not losing much. Truth be told, we added a mid for a small this week and probably could bring in another small to cover kennedy and not notice one bit.
FWIW, Cripps and Kosi are 3cm and 3kg difference. which is about the same difference as Cripps to Kennedy which is twice the difference from Kennedy to Walsh.
Question: Why doesn't Kennedy and Cripps' weight advantage injury midfielders every week given the relative weight difference is the same as Kosi to Kennedy?
Answer: Because it was a freak accident that was not about relative size/strength difference at all.
Officially Matthew Kennedy is 188cm and 91kg, Jacob Koschitzke is 196cm and 95kg, and Patrick Cripps is 195cm and 93kg (although weights are no longer official).
If you watch the footage closely, you will see Kennedy drop to one knee with the taller, heavier Koschitzke pushing his shoulder. Koschitzke continues to push Kennedy and his knee buckles under him with an unnatural flex and that causes the ligament damage. The particular nature of the ruck contest - Koschitzke pushing Kennedy and Kennedy trying to block Koschitzke's path to the ball - and the size differential are significant factors in the injury outcome. A contest with Liam Baker or Tim Taranto would not involve grappling for position and Kennedy would have shrugged them off, even with the foot clash.
The bottom line is that Kennedy's injury happened while he was competing with Koschitzke in a ruck contest. Koschitzke took clean possession and kicked the ball forward resulting in a shot at goal and a behind to Baker.
Kennedy is a valuable midfielder both for his ability to give Cripps a spell and help out with his physical presence. For the record, I had him as the 23rd man in my best 22. That 22 included Docherty, Cuningham, Martin, Cottrell and Motlop so Kennedy is well-entrenched as a midfielder in the best available 22.