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+--- Thread: The Great Ruck Debate. (/thread-6556.html)
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - PaulP - 06-30-2024
(06-29-2024, 07:38 AM)DJC link Wrote:................................................................
I think that you can safely assume that our MC aren't wedded to a single approach and will play Tom, Pitto or both of them as appropriate. One thing I think that we can be sure of is that, unlike Melbourne, they won't throw their hands in the air and give up on two rucks.
It will be interesting to see where the MC take this, assuming both remain on the list. One of the appropriate ways to play them may be to occasionally use De Koning as a super sub. Get Pittonet to work over the other ruck man for e.g 2 1/2 quarters, then bring on De Koning to use his fresh legs, athleticism and skill to gain dominance around stoppage and in the air. In wet conditions like today, it could work.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 06-30-2024
(06-30-2024, 03:32 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Pittonet not playing in the twos, wonder if there might be a late change today.Pretty wet conditions, so it's probably not surprising.
Today in the 1s it should be Charlie weather, not Harry weather. Even after the rain stops the cold will keep things greasy.
But late in games, when the talls aren't getting any shorter, they can often have an impact in heavy conditions.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Lods - 07-01-2024
Thought we handled the ruck situation pretty well yesterday, and if we are mostly going with one ruck it may be the blueprint for going forward.
Now assuming we take Voss at his word, DeKoning had some 'general soreness'.
So by giving him a break we were also able to get some senior game time into Pittonet as he comes back from injury.
Win-win.
Now if DeKoning was generally sore that also indicates that his workload will need to be managed so that one or both of them are ready to go come finals.
One of the key concerns with just one ruck is the toll it would take over a season for a solo ruckman.
Playing it the way we did yesterday means that some weeks we play only one ruck, others we alternate the rucks depending on the opposition, and some weeks maybe both play.
We are pretty lucky, and probably one of the few teams who have two ruckmen able to handle the solo role, if need be.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - DJC - 07-01-2024
(07-01-2024, 01:04 AM)Lods link Wrote:Thought we handled the ruck situation pretty well yesterday, and if we are mostly going with one ruck it may be the blueprint for going forward.
Now assuming we take Voss at his word, DeKoning had some 'general soreness'.
So by giving him a break we were also able to get some senior game time into Pittonet as he comes back from injury.
Win-win.
Now if DeKoning was generally sore that also indicates that his workload will need to be managed so that one or both of them are ready to go come finals.
One of the key concerns with just one ruck is the toll it would take over a season for a solo ruckman.
Playing it the way we did yesterday means that some weeks we play only one ruck, others we alternate the rucks depending on the opposition, and some weeks maybe both play.
We are pretty lucky, and probably one of the few teams who have two ruckmen able to handle the solo role, if need be.
Yes, having two competent and competitive rucks is a huge positive.
However, unless your sole ruckman can “rest” forward, the one ruckman approach does affect forward structure. For example, when Harry was rucking, Zac Williams was our CHF. That reduces his ability to have an impact and puts more defensive pressure on Charlie.
Tom and Pitto both spend around 25% of the game on the pine so were effectively playing with one genuine key forward for one quarter.
Obviously, we are able to work around that with Cripps going forward and our mids and small forwards hitting the scoreboard.
It will be interesting to see how the ruck duties are shared from here on in ?
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 07-01-2024
(07-01-2024, 01:04 AM)Lods date Wrote:Now if DeKoning was generally sore that also indicates that his workload will need to be managed so that one or both of them are ready to go come finals.The nerd discussing stats won't ever understand this, and much of the media coverage is a stats nerd sitting in front of a PC waiting for their preferred / predicted numbers to appear, or at least waiting for something to appear that supports their preferred scenario, no matter how selective the data turns out to be if a supporting case it will be found and broadcast to all who wish to follow.
One of the key concerns with just one ruck is the toll it would take over a season for a solo ruckman.
But the solo ruck problem exists in the real world not on a spreadsheet, and it's never about one game or one quarter, it's about a season long strategy.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-01-2024
(07-01-2024, 01:35 AM)LP link Wrote:The nerd discussing stats won't ever understand this, and much of the media coverage is a stats nerd sitting in front of a PC waiting for their preferred / predicted numbers to appear, or at least waiting for something to appear that supports their preferred scenario, no matter how selective the data turns out to be if a supporting case it will be found and broadcast to all who wish to follow.
But the solo ruck problem exists in the real world not on a spreadsheet, and it's never about one game or one quarter, it's about a season long strategy.
Resorting to name calling are we LP?
Getting desperate are we??
Potentially the nerd talking about stats has covered this before and talked about a rotation policy as well. Which, when you think about it, actually provides us with fresher rucks than if we played 2 every week.
The knock on from having 2 rucks exists in the real world as well, and makes the others players sorer as a result, which i literally highlighted this week, but feel free to pick and choose whichever scenario suits your argument, rather than look at the facts and THEN make a judgement.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-04-2024
Thought i'd come back to this after seeing the ins/outs for this week.
Hewett has been ommitted (as has Pittonet) for this week. In is Cottrell (and TDK).
Now the reason i bring this up is someone of Hewetts talent can't get a game right now because of how good our team is going.
Imagine we played a 2nd ruck.
I don't think Hewett has missed a game this year, and i don't think anyone would say he's done anything wrong, or is terribly out of form. Excluding his 2 games where he started as sub, he has averaged 25 touches this year and 5.2 tackles.
So the question is, who else would you drop in order to play that 2nd ruck this week?
.....and how could you justify that?
The benifit provided by that 2nd ruck surely doesn't even come close to the output of someone like Hewett (or better) who would also need to make way.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - DJC - 07-04-2024
(07-04-2024, 08:59 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Thought i'd come back to this after seeing the ins/outs for this week.
Hewett has been ommitted (as has Pittonet) for this week. In is Cottrell (and TDK).
Now the reason i bring this up is someone of Hewetts talent can't get a game right now because of how good our team is going.
Imagine we played a 2nd ruck.
I don't think Hewett has missed a game this year, and i don't think anyone would say he's done anything wrong, or is terribly out of form. Excluding his 2 games where he started as sub, he has averaged 25 touches this year and 5.2 tackles.
So the question is, who else would you drop in order to play that 2nd ruck this week?
.....and how could you justify that?
The benifit provided by that 2nd ruck surely doesn't even come close to the output of someone like Hewett (or better) who would also need to make way.
That's easy; Ollie Hollands.
A second ruck in reasonable form, like Pitto, would provide greater output than Ollie has over recent weeks. Cottrell covers Ollie's role and De Koning going forward means we don't miss Cottrell as a high half forward.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Lods - 07-04-2024
The two ruck combination worked well last time we played GWS.
I'd have no problems if we used it again this week.
We've been playing ducks and drakes with our line ups after initial selection (TDK last week) so it may pay to see how we actually line up.
We've also been managing our players game time and it may be the Hewett move is part of that strategy.
Will Kennedy play...I suspect he won't.
I suspect he shouldn't
... and in comes Hewett.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-04-2024
(07-04-2024, 09:10 AM)DJC link Wrote:That's easy; Ollie Hollands.
A second ruck in reasonable form, like Pitto, would provide greater output than Ollie has over recent weeks. Cottrell covers Ollie's role and De Koning going forward means we don't miss Cottrell as a high half forward.
So you want to play our least mobile player in place of one of our best runners and think that's a good idea?
In form or not, hollands running power benefits the team and losing that has a follow on effect.