+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond (/thread-6423.html)
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - Gointocarlton - 03-15-2024
PS I saw SOS and Jo in a bar at the G on Friday. Good to see SOS at a Carlton game even though his son wasn't playing. He couldn't have been doing recon work as we don't play them until the last round. We were on the table next them and Junior G2C and I were trying to eaves drop on what they were talking about but couldn't here. They were with another bloke and Junior did hear him tell SOS something like "We all know she's the boss mate" to which Jo smiled.
So many nuffies were going up to him asking for a photo, he obliged to every one of them which was nice to see.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - Lods - 03-15-2024
Go back to around this time last year and read some of the comments regarding TDK.
They're often about his 'unrealised' potential...like "he hasn't really shown us what he is capable of yet"
He was probably second choice ruckman behind Pittonet at that stage.
Surely folks can see the improvement.
That's all we can ask....'improvement'.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - Thryleon - 03-15-2024
We had 4 rucks on the list this time last season. 2 raw and tagged with potential. One developing nicely who is as much a forward who can ruck as a ruck than push forward, and one 24/7 meat and potatoes ruckman in pittonet who is solid but unspectacular and could easily disappear into anonymity. Talk of de koning going last year was fanciful.
Also he wad playing to his potential what people were moaning about was consistency.
Charlie is a gun and whilst he showed signs early he wasn't really ready to take the scruff of the neck of games until a few years back. Harry similar. Only smalls are consistent early on, even then they don't develope consistency until they get continuity.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - shawny - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:42 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Everyone has seen the potential from TDK, everyone believes he can do it. He seems to be the only one who hasn't seen it. Year on year we keep waiting. Perhaps THIS is the year he finally gets it. Could be a good year for him and us if it is.
He is still improving and as many of us have have said on here he proves a big challenge for opposition as around the ground he is a very difficult match up and actually impacts the result like the very best rucks in the comp can do.
My concern is if he goes down we have very little to draw upon. Pitto is older slower and pretty much useless around the ground-will be a massive downgrade if that happens.
I would be in favour of maybe resting TDK for games against the bottom 4 teams to give his body extra time to recover.
TDK is as important as charlie and weitering imo to us going further this year. We need to look after him by resting him when suitable imo.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - shawny - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:48 AM)Smurfy link Wrote:I really think that everyone needs to rememeber who Lewis Young is, he is a a backup and as a backup we need to have a little more faith in him, look where we would be without him? think about that get onboard and pump up his tyres a little , whilst he is down a little support from all may prove to be a benefit . he wasnt picked up to be the main man.
Great post.
He is playing one if the hardest spots where every error is magnified and he is then labelled a dud.
A midfielder misses a handball or kick but then does something good the error is usually forgiven. Do the same in defence and many want them cut off the list.
Kemp makes mistakes too but has been solid and both kemp and young are playing massive roles and i think so far they have both been serviceable which is all you can ask with no generals like Weitering or doc assisting.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - kruddler - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 11:19 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Also he wad playing to his potential what people were moaning about was consistency.
Semantics to a point.
If he does 1 good, athletic, eye-popping thing a game, and goes missing for the rest of it, is that because he hasn't reached his potential or he isn't consistent?
I'd say its potential.
If he has 1 solid game 1 week and a nothing game the next week, i'd say that is consistency.
He may have put together the odd solid game over his career, but he hasn't earned himself a 3 brownlow vote game in the way Nic Nat did. He is capable of it.....which is why its been frustrating.
Previously, people have seen glimpses, and extrapolate that out to a good performance.
When you break it down, the rest of the performances have usually been very much sub par. He is remembered for the 'almost' mark of the week attempts, and not for going missing for 20 minutes at a time. This is why i went to great depth to show people perceptions of what he was doing, was out of whack with what he was actually doing. Opposite was true with Pittonet/Silvagni.
NOW he is starting to find some more consistency and using his gifts we all knew he had. Taking some marks. Getting some ground balls. Sticking some tackles. Kicking some goals. This should be the norm from him, not the exception.
I said all along, i've got no issue with him, but he needed to perform, not just get a gig based on potential. He is starting to perform and we should keep it that way.
My only worry is that he is peforming now because he is fit and healthy. After getting banged up week in and week out, he may not be able to perform in the same way. Won't be able to jump as high, run as fast and pressure in the same manner due to niggles/injury. THEN it may become an issue.
I still maintain we run with 1 ruck, and he is my preference for now.
Maybe switch him out for Pittonet if he starts to carry a niggle, but don't play both.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - kruddler - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:48 AM)Smurfy link Wrote:I really think that everyone needs to rememeber who Lewis Young is, he is a a backup and as a backup we need to have a little more faith in him, look where we would be without him? think about that get onboard and pump up his tyres a little , whilst he is down a little support from all may prove to be a benefit . he wasnt picked up to be the main man.
People need to remember that he was also holding down a key post for a whole season and looked like a million bucks. Thats why we gave him a long term contract.
Since then, he is gone from a starter, to a backup....and a backup of a backup at that! We were choosing to play him behind Weitering, McGovern, Kemp and Marchbank in that role, despite 3 of them not actually being suited to it.
As i just got saying about TDK. Its about potential. He had it. He fulfilled it. He lost it.
He should not be judged with kid gloves because he has gone backwards as a player....and right at a point in time where we need him the most.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - DJC - 03-16-2024
(03-15-2024, 11:32 PM)shawny link Wrote:Great post.
He is playing one if the hardest spots where every error is magnified and he is then labelled a dud.
A midfielder misses a handball or kick but then does something good the error is usually forgiven. Do the same in defence and many want them cut off the list.
Kemp makes mistakes too but has been solid and both kemp and young are playing massive roles and i think so far they have both been serviceable which is all you can ask with no generals like Weitering or doc assisting.
How many mistakes did Young actually make?
There was the soft, front on free to Lynch that should have been play on. He made up ground on Balta and tackled just after Balta kicked for goal. His tackle on Lynch didn’t stick but Lynch had the advantage.
Young stuck his marks and spoiled when that was the best option - something Kemp should take note of - and his spoils killed the ball.
Finally, his disposal was excellent, unlike that of Saad, Williams and Boyd.
Young isn’t Weitering but he’s doing a decent job as a stand in. Weitering makes life easier for all of our defenders and Young is no exception. I expect him to stay in the 22 when Weiters is back and play even better footy.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - Lods - 03-16-2024
(03-15-2024, 11:40 PM)kruddler link Wrote:Semantics to a point.
If he does 1 good, athletic, eye-popping thing a game, and goes missing for the rest of it, is that because he hasn't reached his potential or he isn't consistent?
I'd say its potential.
If he has 1 solid game 1 week and a nothing game the next week, i'd say that is consistency.
He may have put together the odd solid game over his career, but he hasn't earned himself a 3 brownlow vote game in the way Nic Nat did. He is capable of it.....which is why its been frustrating.
Previously, people have seen glimpses, and extrapolate that out to a good performance.
When you break it down, the rest of the performances have usually been very much sub par. He is remembered for the 'almost' mark of the week attempts, and not for going missing for 20 minutes at a time. This is why i went to great depth to show people perceptions of what he was doing, was out of whack with what he was actually doing. Opposite was true with Pittonet/Silvagni.
NOW he is starting to find some more consistency and using his gifts we all knew he had. Taking some marks. Getting some ground balls. Sticking some tackles. Kicking some goals. This should be the norm from him, not the exception.
I said all along, i've got no issue with him, but he needed to perform, not just get a gig based on potential. He is starting to perform and we should keep it that way.
My only worry is that he is peforming now because he is fit and healthy. After getting banged up week in and week out, he may not be able to perform in the same way. Won't be able to jump as high, run as fast and pressure in the same manner due to niggles/injury. THEN it may become an issue.
I still maintain we run with 1 ruck, and he is my preference for now.
Maybe switch him out for Pittonet if he starts to carry a niggle, but don't play both.
I reckon the best way to develop your potential is to play senior games against seasoned opposition.
You learn from the best, even if they give you a hiding or two in the early contests.
De Koning's starting to show us what he's capable of because he's been getting those experiences against the very best in the latter part of last season and early this year.
You don't get that playing VFL.
Consistency is another thing that comes from experience.
It sometimes takes a while...so if there is the odd run of bad games we have to accept that as part of the development.
It's why it's probably not a great idea to make judgements in the moment, or at a certain point of a players early career.
Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond - kruddler - 03-16-2024
(03-16-2024, 02:04 AM)Lods link Wrote:I reckon the best way to develop your potential is to play senior games against seasoned opposition.
You learn from the best, even if they give you a hiding or two in the early contests.
De Koning's starting to show us what he's capable of because he's been getting those experiences against the very best in the latter part of last season and early this year.
You don't get that playing VFL.
Consistency is another thing that comes from experience.
It sometimes takes a while...so if there is the odd run of bad games we have to accept that as part of the development.
It's why it's probably not a great idea to make judgements in the moment, or at a certain point of a players early career.
You can also ruin a player and his confidence by gifting them games before they are ready for it.
Dow and O'Brien immediately spring to mind.
Doubley so for young rucks/kpps.