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+--- Thread: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide (/thread-4914.html)
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - LordLucifer - 09-13-2020
(09-13-2020, 12:17 PM)shawny link Wrote:Today really typified us a club. Playing the bottom team with a win needed to keep our finals hopes alive.
Cripps is not beyond criticism to me. He has been severely underperforming who again had done SFA against a weak midfield. He finally gets a chance to make a difference and as usual sprays an easy set shot in front then takes it on and kicks a beautiful running goal. He then turns to crowd and gives a gesture with his arms out as if to suggest ‘how good am I’. He then jogs back to the centre with a cheeky grin on his face tapping teammates on his way thru. Now I’m not being critical for showing some inspiration but FMD he is our captain had done nothing to that point just missed an easy goal all while we are playing for a spot in the finals and we at that point we’re still 5 f***ing goals down with only 1 and 1/2 quarter remaining!! I remember thinking how does this look to the kids in the team. Do one cameo and then behave like I’m the man.
Then there was the farce after losing the game, wtf did we need to chair off Gibbs. Hugging and laughing after the game was already too much but chair him off. Why? He is the enemy he is an ‘opponent’ yes an ‘opponent’ and we chair him off and then swap jumpers with him.
Didn’t he leave us after all and even recall comments he made bagging us when things were going better in his new home. And yet we are kicked out of the finals race against the bottom team and as his opposition we chair the bloke off. Disgusting.
We have no one with any real heart, any real desire to do everything and anything to succeed. We are a bunch of nice blokes and led by a coach with the same character. Us fans hurt more then the players and I tell ya what they are not getting my hard earned next year. They again got it this year but not a chance that’s happening again.
Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the shits with Cripps showboating after that goal !!
I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - Baggers - 09-13-2020
(09-13-2020, 10:13 AM)laj link Wrote:We lacked that connect between mids and forward coaches, which Teague has lamented all year. It was the same when Teague was forward coach. Being able to train only with 8 at a times, and with a lot less sessions certainly hasn't helped. You don't even get the chance to try to practice connecting.
Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.
Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.
And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...
For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.
We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.
Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.
There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - LoveNavy - 09-13-2020
I think I predicted we finish 12th. From that perspective, my expectations were met.
What I found most disappointing and downright frustrating was the tease. The repeated performances showing we can match it with the best. This sells hope. Only to be followed by an abysmal performance, either within or between games. The inconsistencies are difficult to reconcile. That is until you look at the big picture.
I believe we're a better side than recent years. We have most of the players, although some are still developing. Some are developing aspects of their game to address weaknesses. Some simply aren't good enough.
We didn't have the home state advantage of several club's. Unfortunately Melbourne's CV status may have been an additional stressor for all VIC club's. Not excuses but real disproportionate factors likely to have an impact. I'm very pleased with the way our boys held up and hope Stocker returns in good health. This type of schedule certainly favors the seasoned sides.
I agree we should make a few list changes. I have no idea about the coaching staff though. Our injury list hasn't improved. MC have delivered head scratching selections. Our mindset seems to be a regular problem in terms of not showing up for 1 or 2 quarters.
Those are areas where attention is required IMO. We certainly don't follow the 'you start the way you finish the last game'. On the contrary. I suspect mental toughness issues may be at play.
All is not lost, but we have a lot of work ahead of 2021.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - shawny - 09-13-2020
(09-13-2020, 12:22 PM)LordLucifer link Wrote:Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the craps with Cripps showboating after that goal !!
I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.
Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - jeza - 09-13-2020
Setterfield has improved but is only a 15 pos per game midfielder.
Cripps has had a poor year.
Ed is limited.
Walsh would have to go close in the B&F (weiters?) but has been out on the wing.
Murphy is a bit past it.
Our mids aren't great. We have needed 2 more starting mids for the last 10 years. Can't understand why every other club can bring them in except us.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - bratblue - 09-13-2020
It was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year. I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.
I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - Spanner_smf2_import2 - 09-13-2020
(09-13-2020, 01:18 PM)bratblue link Wrote:It from was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year. I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.This is precisely the problem with this club. We put players on a pedestal and they effectively can’t do no wrong.
I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.
Enough's enough! Cripps knows he’s regarded as the best player at the club and now is a shell of the player he once was because he knows he is above reproach. All he has to do is rock up and collect his pay cheque.
This has to stop. I’m all for lauding the players when they deserve it, but he and his mates don’t deserve any type of plaudits for their efforts this season. Praise when praise is due, not on past accomplishments.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - Thryleon - 09-13-2020
(09-13-2020, 12:48 PM)shawny link Wrote:Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.
Got caught following his man up the field for the entire first half which was why adelaide scored so easily.
It was a deliberate tactic to create separation leaving jones one out down back or a tandem with plowman and the opposition ruck who pushed forward hard knowing de koning didn't have the wheels to work up and down all game.
Weitering is better than that and the plan was to isolate the weak links.
It worked because we play see ball get ball too much.
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - LP - 09-13-2020
I don't have a problem with Cripps celebrating a goal.
Firstly, they should celebrate goals as it builds confidence.
Secondly, it also breaks a stress cycle, not just for the goal-kicker but also for the team.
Finally, that highlight and a few more of them will force opposition clubs to treat Cripps differently. He'll become the master of his own destiny, that is exactly what we need, We do not need him being treated with disrespect and run-off freely, we need them shit scared to leave him unattended, and for him to have the confidence to kick those goals when or if they do leave him unattended!
Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide - laj - 09-14-2020
(09-13-2020, 12:27 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.
Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.
And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...
For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.
We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.
Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.
There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.
You trying to tell me Hardwick's success was Hardwick's. It's nice to have help but he has seen that club come from a total rabble for 35 years to a great club. There is no argument. Took 7 years to properly change that culture. Spin doesn't change that. And I can assure you the moment things changed for Geelong is when Chappy said enough is enough. They were 2-3 going not working like they should and that moment changed everything. It was leadership from within.
As for COVID it highly favored clubs with an ingrained, well entrenched game plan, where things were automatic. We started with issues with the connect between the mids and forwards, unlike many other sides. not to mention we had issues with allowing clubs to score easily. With 8 people only training at one time there was no chance to sort any of those issues. Sorry, that's a fact. Every clubs situation is different. Not an excuse though for those horrible, lackadaisical start. That's part is pathetic. No excuse for five 6 to 8 goal starts during the first half. If you're a paid player the least you can do is to turn up to play when the ball is bounced.
The issue we have is to change our losing culture, get that want to win from the first moment. Coach can do so much, and he has improved us quite alot, 13-14 from 4-39. Done a great job there, similar to Ratten's first year. We fight every game out to the end. We missed out on a finals chance with a couple of chokes but i'm prepared to wear that in the short term as part of development. A change being in finals contention up to the penultimate round rather than talking no.1 picks. Acceptable for not but not acceptable, if you know what I mean. as we pissed a gold-plated chance to play finals down the drain. What we need is a few players from within to say enough is enough. One thing psychology teaches you, and spent years studying that as my undergrad degree and partial post grad while getting my Exercise Physiology Masters, and 35 years a coach, is unless motivation is intrinsic you never never get the best from yourself no matter the talent. Extrinsic motivation will only get you so far but if you don't want it badly enough it won't happen to full potential no matter how many coaches, psychologist push it. They can go along way to dragging it out but in the end has to come from within. Cats did that in 2007. it's why cultures take such a long time to change.