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+--- Thread: Next Captain (/thread-3745.html)
Re: Next Captain - JonHenry - 04-24-2018
(04-24-2018, 07:00 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Generally agree. I suspect almost all of a captain's best work is unheard by the public at large, and a lesser but still significant amount of their best work is also unseen.
But the one thing they can't be is small and physically weak
Murphy just doesn't impose himself, in fact he often get's pushed around and knocked over and his answer, look for a free.
What sort of role model or image is that for all these kids coming through.
What successful side has ever had a captain that gets physically knocked around like Murphy does?
Re: Next Captain - kruddler - 04-24-2018
(04-24-2018, 01:15 PM)DJC link Wrote:And that's where your analysis falls down. Captaining a football club is a lot more complex than what supporters see from the stands.
The other Murphy is a prime example. Even though he missed the season through injury, Bob Murphy was a huge factor in the Doggies' premiership. To me, Bob Murphy is closer to Glenn Manton, or perhaps Tommy Alvin, than any other players we've had in the recent past.
What makes me think that Cripps will be our captain, in due course, is the role he has played in helping Zac Fisher to develop his ability to play in the midfield. That to me is far more important than the physicality that Cripps is able to bring to bear on match day.
I'm not saying it is the ONLY reason, i already stated plenty of other reasons previously....and am not discounting them.
As for Bob Murphy....we don't have an equivalent, so that example doesn't help us here.
What i'm suggesting is that there are quite a few players who would be considered leaders, and when choosing from them who should be captain you ignore the similarities and focus on the differences. Thats how you distinguish between them. So i'm assuming they all have those qualities as 'those in the know' have them in the leadership group.
Personally, i know that i walked taller playing under a ruckman captain than i did playing under a small mid (Murphy clone actually) during my footy career. Presence out on the ground simply cannot be matched from the smaller bloke.
Re: Next Captain - cookie2 - 04-24-2018
http://www.appliedsportpsych.org/resources/resources-for-athletes/the-3-c-s-of-being-a-captain/.
Before we discuss who should be filling the role of our capt maybe we should agree on the qualities we would be looking for. Otherwise we can end up with a meandering debate. So, here is a link to a broad brush description of what those qualities might be for starters.
Re: Next Captain - PaulP - 04-24-2018
(04-24-2018, 10:16 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:But the one thing they can't be is small and physically weak
Murphy just doesn't impose himself, in fact he often get's pushed around and knocked over and his answer, look for a free.
What sort of role model or image is that for all these kids coming through.
What successful side has ever had a captain that gets physically knocked around like Murphy does?
I think on the Staging For Frees Index, Murphy rates pretty low IMO, in an industry where such habits are not only encouraged, but dare I say also discussed and rehearsed.
Leaders come in different shapes and sizes. If I was playing alongside Murph, I would simply accept that he is one player out of 22 that has a job to do. He's being given the role of captain, he's not big or strong, and doesn't physically intimidate, but there's other players who are able do that, and they can do that, whether they are captain or not. He brings other qualities to the role, and I would pretty much leave it at that, and just get on with it.
I've said it before - much too much is made of the role of captain - one individual simply cannot make that much difference. Any player who has a bad day and blames the captain for not inspiring them, or not being big and tough enough, should be sacked on the spot. I realise for some people the captain has to be big and tough, intimidating etc., but I'm not from that school of thought. I think it disempowers team members when they believe that so and so should "inspire" them, or iron out some opponent. I think it's a sign of weakness to wait for others to do those things. Every player should be a leader as it were, and should be empowered to act as a captain acts in these circumstances.
Our plight in recent seasons would have been exactly the same irrespective of who our captain was, be it Sticks or anyone else.
Re: Next Captain - northernblue - 04-24-2018
(04-24-2018, 10:57 PM)PaulP link Wrote:I think on the Staging For Frees Index, Murphy rates pretty low IMO, in an industry where such habits are not only encouraged, but dare I say also discussed and rehearsed.
Leaders come in different shapes and sizes. If I was playing alongside Murph, I would simply accept that he is one player out of 22 that has a job to do. He's being given the role of captain, he's not big or strong, and doesn't physically intimidate, but there's other players who are able do that, and they can do that, whether they are captain or not. He brings other qualities to the role, and I would pretty much leave it at that, and just get on with it.
I've said it before - much too much is made of the role of captain - one individual simply cannot make that much difference. Any player who has a bad day and blames the captain for not inspiring them, or not being big and tough enough, should be sacked on the spot. I realise for some people the captain has to be big and tough, intimidating etc., but I'm not from that school of thought. I think it disempowers team members when they believe that so and so should "inspire" them, or iron out some opponent. I think it's a sign of weakness to wait for others to do those things. Every player should be a leader as it were, and should be empowered to act as a captain acts in these circumstances.
Our plight in recent seasons would have been exactly the same irrespective of who our captain was, be it Sticks or anyone else.
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Re: Next Captain - PaulP - 04-24-2018
As a small aside, Jonathan Brown was co captain of the Lions in 07-08, then sole captain from 09-12, then co captain in 2013. The Lions played finals in just one of those years, and often finished in the lower reaches of the ladder.
Re: Next Captain - kruddler - 04-25-2018
(04-24-2018, 10:57 PM)PaulP link Wrote:I think on the Staging For Frees Index, Murphy rates pretty low IMO, in an industry where such habits are not only encouraged, but dare I say also discussed and rehearsed.
Compare Selwood and Murphy.
Both stage for free kicks. One earns them more than the other and comes off most weeks looking like a mummy.
Selwood would practice staging for free kicks, or at least earning them with his shrug.
Murphy doesn't need to practice throwing his head back.
(04-24-2018, 10:57 PM)PaulP link Wrote:I've said it before - much too much is made of the role of captain - one individual simply cannot make that much difference.
How much difference can a colour make? What about a whole jumper design?
I'm tipping a lot less than a captain, but yet, our club, and others around the world, have changed them in order to turn fortunes around in one way or another.
Keep in mind playing football in your local league is different to that of AFL level. A Captain at AFL level needs to have more strings to their bow.
As stupid as it sounds, the right captain can not just ease pressure on the coach, but the whole club.
Look at how the people on here who used to give it to Gibbs on a weekly basis. Even if he played a blinder, some people simply didn't like the way he went about it. Bryce Squibbs could often be heard on here and in the outer. That is how opposition supporters see him. That trickles into the media as well.
Similar can be said about Marc Murphy, except being captain the scrutiny is 10-fold.
Look at how the media have already jumped on board the Cripps-train and suggesting Murphy should be replaced.
Any poor performance Murphy puts in from here will reignite that debate. He is a divisive figure outside our football club. As a result pressure is heaped on him, and the club. Bolton is forced to defend him at press conferences and forced to defend his own stance. Questions are asked of those above him as well.
Cripps as captain and 95% of that noise disappears.
In short, the captain should represent your brand. Not only for your teammates, but the extended AFL community as a whole.
Re: Next Captain - PaulP - 04-25-2018
When you say "the right captain", you mean the right captain as ordained by the media ? Well, f#ck 'em. The last group we should be bowing to are the media. We've been extremely weak in this respect for ages. They will always find a new whipping boy. In late 2012, the media determined we needed to change coach and Mick was the man. Then in early 2015, they again determined we had to change coach because Mick wasn't the man. We need to resist their nonsense, because eventually they will move on to the next story, scandal etc.
Murphy is nearing the end anyway. He will be gone soon enough, and then we can whinge about Doc, Cripps etc.
Re: Next Captain - kruddler - 04-25-2018
(04-25-2018, 12:29 AM)PaulP link Wrote:When you say "the right captain", you mean the right captain as ordained by the media ?No.
I mean the right captain for the football club.
That is the players, coaches etc.
That is also enhancing the brand of the club, which helps with members, supporters, AFL community including the media.
Each time i make a post about this, someone assumes that is the ONLY requirement. It is not.
Re: Next Captain - PaulP - 04-25-2018
(04-25-2018, 12:33 AM)kruddler link Wrote:No.
I mean the right captain for the football club.
That is the players, coaches etc.
That is also enhancing the brand of the club, which helps with members, supporters, AFL community including the media.
Each time i make a post about this, someone assumes that is the ONLY requirement. It is not.
How do you know that Murph isn't that player, at least for now ?