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+--- Thread: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg (/thread-2056.html)
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - Thryleon - 06-11-2015
(06-10-2015, 09:21 PM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:Didn't you say winning is everything? Ellard won't win you diddly squat, Yarran will. Time to let the Ellard thing go mate.
No.
I think you have me confused with someone else, or are applying your spin to a different point made.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - cookie2 - 06-11-2015
(06-10-2015, 11:05 PM)Lods link Wrote:Yarran was dropped for disciplinary reasons.
Otherwise he's one of the first players picked.
If he goes back and does his penance....(and it looks like he didn't sook it and went OK with 20+ touches)
then he's once again one of the first players picked.
The point has been made.
Unfortunately though Lods Yazz is a bit of a recidivist. He definitely needs to get over that once and for all.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - PassIt2Carrots - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:11 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:No.
I think you have me confused with someone else, or are applying your spin to a different point made.
No, you have definitely said winning is of utmost importance and that's why blokes like Ellard should play over youth.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - Thryleon - 06-11-2015
(06-10-2015, 11:05 PM)Lods link Wrote:Yarran was dropped for disciplinary reasons.
Otherwise he's one of the first players picked.
If he goes back and does his penance....(and it looks like he didn't sook it and went OK with 20+ touches)
then he's once again one of the first players picked.
The point has been made.
The point has been made, but we have been here before. Ratten dropped Yarran to the NB's back in 2012. He starred that day and came straight up again.
He might have gone OK, but Ellard was huge. He kicked 3 goals, got it 23 times, and won 10 clearances. We lost by 2 points. That contribution was enourmous.
That is the only thing we need to reward consistent effort and application, and that way when Ellard is displaced in future, it won't be by a bloke just going ok in the VFL, it will be by a guy forcing a point to get a game (hopefully).
There will be weeks where guys get a game by default, but when there is genuine competition for a senior spot, the only critieria being judged to give a player a spot on the team should be how they have been performing to get that opportunity. Shouldnt it?
(06-11-2015, 12:31 AM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:No, you have definitely said winning is of utmost importance and that's why blokes like Ellard should play over youth.
Definately? I have stated it in context of rewarding the effort (see above) rather than gifting people games because they are young. What I suggest, is that perhaps you consider that maybe you missed the point.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - shadesy - 06-11-2015
(06-10-2015, 08:33 AM)kruddler link Wrote:That is a really tall lineup and not so mobile.
I'd prefer 2 of those 3 listed as backs with your 3rd 'tall' White.
You can't play Casboult, Kreuzer and Jaksch in the same forwardline and expect Everitt to fit in there as well. Without a genuine crumbing forward to mop up. Menzel will probably be down there too who plays best as another marking forward.
That forwardline will have the ball cleared out of defence quicker than Yarran with open space.
Personally i wouldn't mind see Hendo+Kreuzer up forward with only one of Wood/Casboult in the side. Throw in Jaksch, Everitt, White and Walker to play your 3rd+4th backs and forwards and you have a better balanced side.
Compare that Set up to some of the better teams
Freo - Johnson, McPharlin, Dawson (when fit) - Pavlich/Clarke/Taberner/Mayne
West Coast - Schofield, McGovern, Mckenzie/Brown (if fit) - Kennedy/Sinclair/McInnes/Darling
Sydney - Richards/Grundy/Reid - Buddy/Tippet/Goodes/
Hawks - Lake/Frawley/Statton/Shoenmakers - Roughy/Hale/Gunston/
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - Pratty - 06-11-2015
(06-10-2015, 08:33 AM)kruddler link Wrote:That is a really tall lineup and not so mobile.
I'd prefer 2 of those 3 listed as backs with your 3rd 'tall' White.
You can't play Casboult, Kreuzer and Jaksch in the same forwardline and expect Everitt to fit in there as well. Without a genuine crumbing forward to mop up. Menzel will probably be down there too who plays best as another marking forward.
That forwardline will have the ball cleared out of defence quicker than Yarran with open space.
Personally i wouldn't mind see Hendo+Kreuzer up forward with only one of Wood/Casboult in the side. Throw in Jaksch, Everitt, White and Walker to play your 3rd+4th backs and forwards and you have a better balanced side.
Yeah I'd prefer Everitt and Walker both to play forward. Probably Yarran too. We need to kick some goals.
Cas, MK and Hendo may rotate through there too. All three of them though are more plodders.
Keep Cas closer to goal and let the more mobile and quicker Everitt, Walker and White patrol further afield.
I'm not keen on White playing in defence too often.
Jaksch will have to get in line right now but there'll be an opening soon enough knowing us.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - Lods - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 01:14 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:There will be weeks where guys get a game by default, but when there is genuine competition for a senior spot, the only critieria being judged to give a player a spot on the team should be how they have been performing to get that opportunity. Shouldnt it?
No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - northernblue - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 02:06 AM)Lods link Wrote:No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
I understand what you're saying lods, but I think the more important question with Yarran is WHY he seems to be playing angry...
Is it his personal life ?
Is/was he dissatisfied with mm/coaching/gameplan ?
Is he feeling outcast because Eddie and Jeff aren't here anymore ?
Is he playing injured and thus frustrated ?
Does he actually want to be somewhere else ?
Depending on if there is a problem and what it is will have a large bearing on what we as a club can do...
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - Thryleon - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 02:06 AM)Lods link Wrote:No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
Pay that as a reason why you would look at promoting Yarran, but I don't believe you would do it at the expense of Ellard as that does send the wrong message.
The team must come first, so if you were to promote Yarran on that performance, you would look at other places where things are not quite coming together and playing angry and frustrated may be one more reason to leave him in the VFL to help him calm down. So you sell it to him differently regarding senior footy, and you tell him its a pressure release. Go back to the VFL, enjoy your footy for a change, and the pressure is off regarding performing. Just get out there, and enjoy yourself for a bit, and let us know when you are feeling better about playing senior footy and perhaps a little less frustrated.
For all we know, he is angry at the footy club for the decision making they have employed over the past few years for no result and gone regardless, in which case playing him now will not make any difference regarding what he does moving forward.
Re: VFL Round 8: Northern Blues vs. Coburg - PassIt2Carrots - 06-11-2015
Or maybe he was just pissed at the direction the club was headed under Mick?
Either way, promoting Ellard over Yarran would be one of the worst football decisions made in the history of any club. Ellard has time and time again provided himself to be not up to senior football. Even pushing Yarran to one side, playing Ellard full stop is just plain stupid. Been there, done that, time to move on. I just hope our club has taken a step forward with regards to this.
TBF Thry, some of your suggestions are so far off the mark ATM I'm wondering whether you are deliberately trying to be provocative.