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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-21-2022

The biggest issues with hospital, is that they are run by staff who are well versed in running medical care, but not how to run an efficient business.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 02:10 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:The biggest issues with hospital, is that they are run by staff who are well versed in running medical care, but not how to run an efficient business.
I get that, but I gather if you were crook you would rather be treated by a experienced health care worker than a bean counter! Wink

I think the desire to make everything a profit centre is a major cause of modernity's ills.

So should some things just be a service that is financially underwritten by society?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 02:13 AM)LP link Wrote:I get that, but I gather if you were crook you would rather be treated by a experienced health care worker than a bean counter! Wink

I think the desire to make everything a profit centre is a major cause of modernity's ills.

So should some things just be a service that is financially underwritten by society?

Of course, why would I want medical treatment from a bean counter?

A bean counter is more adequately positioned to run a business though.  There is an over representation of health care professionals in management roles, when they probably should stick to managing patient care.  Most of them arent good people leaders let alone business leaders. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 02:19 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Of course, why would I want medical treatment from a bean counter?

A bean counter is more adequately positioned to run a business though.  There is an over representation of health care professionals in management roles, when they probably should stick to managing patient care.  Most of them arent good people leaders let alone business leaders.
I get it, but if the bias was the other way with the bean counters governing the health care it might be far worse!

Is the experienced health worker who is a inefficient manager the lesser of two evils?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 07-21-2022

Test has come back negative.

I guess thats a good thing, but i feel a lot worse than my boy who is positive. He's running around like nothing.

Not sure how accurate these tests are with the latest variant as everyone in the house is sick at the same time, but only one of us is positive and i find it hard to believe that he has kept it to himself. Sharing beds, drinks and food, but hasn't transmitted it?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 01:58 AM)LP link Wrote:It's a bad situation, because they have no obligation to accept patients.

I know a friend who had COVID recently, went to one of those clinics for express treatment and was turned away to the government run clinic. They then went to a local GP and was also turned away to the government run clinic. In the end they had to do a telehealth appointment to get to the next step. It was just a waste of the fee, because the next step is going to the government run clinic for a PCR test.

The clinics are using telehealth like a triage, and the private ER's are cherry-picking who's money they want to take!

It's all very Americanised, and I can see it causing some major problems in the public hospitals.

Interestingly, when I had my stent fitted I was warned things were heading this way by the public cardiology nurse. Initially I went to a private hospital with it's own cardiology unit and catheter lab as per my insurance policy, etc., but then got transferred to a public hospital as a private patient. The staff at the public hospital says it happens all the time, the less profitable cases and the cases that are likely to be problematic, get handballed to the public system. The cardiology nurse said you are better off going private in public from the get go, because if there are any unexpected problems that is where you end up anyway.

The UK model is much better than the American model, but the American model is what makes private investors wealthy, and politicians take the path of least resistance or cost. The politicians go where their bread will be buttered in the future!
If you need Cardiology care public is the way to go, private in a public hospital setting doesn't mean you are guaranteed anything extra , it's all about availability and being a cardiac patient you will get your own room initially anyway after a stent insertion.
The public hospital I was in for my stent begged me to allow them to charge me as a Private patient as they needed the money.
They agreed to pay my excess so keen were they to get the private claim across the line. Fully agree it's going the way of the USA and even the meds were on the claim invoice.
The care was first class in the public hospital I was in and the staff excellent but you just worry for the future as they were all over worked and often doing double shifts due to the lack of qualified replacements given Cardiology is a specialist area..


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 02:39 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Test has come back negative.

I guess thats a good thing, but i feel a lot worse than my boy who is positive. He's running around like nothing.

Not sure how accurate these tests are with the latest variant as everyone in the house is sick at the same time, but only one of us is positive and i find it hard to believe that he has kept it to himself. Sharing beds, drinks and food, but hasn't transmitted it?
Maybe your boy is the last in the family to get it and the rest of you had it without symptoms recently?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 02:35 AM)LP link Wrote:I get it, but if the bias was the other way with the bean counters governing the health care it might be far worse!

Is the experienced health worker who is a inefficient manager the lesser of two evils?

LP, this argument seems to be escaping you, which is ironic given you bleat about the AFL pigs feeding at the trough.

The health care version is the same thing.  Matron runs the hospital.  Its been the case for 60 years.

Thing is, matron doesnt understand macroeconomics, and how efficiency is bourne out of some of the transformational shift that technology can bring, BUT, they dont have time to do it.

They dont have time for it, because they dont make time for it.  Why do you think that they end up paying agency staff exhorbitant figures to fill holes?

The bean counters arent being listened to, because there is no room to negotiate on patient care.

Finally, there are hospitals out there that do have a relatively good amount of business acumen in the executive director levels, but they often report in to a nurse, and then you get wildly swinging strategy as a result.

FWIW, working in an IT department at a hospital, there are too many clinical people making business decisions, about a clinical information system, because they dont understand that the system cannot do the work for the clinician, but thats what they are trying to create. 

Finally, nepotism, and jobs for the "boys" is rife in the public healthcare space. 

My wife and I have both worked in a variety of hospital settings.  The majority of my experience is public, and management left a lot to be desired particularly when it came to process and procedure, especially when their were ex clinical staff turned into business leaders, rather than business leaders leading clinical staff.  Long story short, the best run hospital my Mrs worked for, had a history of appointing DOCTORS in the role of CEO and it was a private hospital, because most of them run their private practises BEFORE running an entire hospital, or health network, which means they know the tricks of the trade on how to get patients in, how to get them good care, whilst still running an efficient business.

She has been in a public institution for 6 months, and there is institutional push back against reforms that will yield performance improvement because of long standing cultural push back.

Good business leaders, defer to their subject matter experts when decisions can impact the business adversely.  Bad ones, dictate.  Guess which description matches the public hospital experience??  Wink 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 07-21-2022

(07-21-2022, 11:49 AM)Mav link Wrote:Maybe your boy is the last in the family to get it and the rest of you had it without symptoms recently?
Seems counter intuitive since we are all sick now.
Not impossible, but improbable.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-22-2022

(07-21-2022, 10:34 PM)Thryleon date Wrote:LP, this argument seems to be escaping you, which is ironic given you bleat about the AFL pigs feeding at the trough.
I think that's a huge stretch to associate Matrons climbing the career ladder with AFL Past Players getting jobs for the boys.

I've a relative who was a "Matron" and became a senior business manager at a major Melbourne Metro hospital, it was a 24x7 job overloaded with bureaucracy and a continual ongoing battle against bean counters putting profit before health care. Business hours, after hours, weekends, holidays, while in transit, 24x7 it never stopped, there was never any clocking off. Her priority was to preserve the level of care, first and foremost, that is the function of hospitals, not creating jobs, not creating profits, not paying bonusses or dividends.

In my opinion she could have left health and earned far more doing a far easier job in corporate or industrial circles, so I've nothing but admiration for those who do this type of work with a relatively extreme workload and usually at far less remuneration than some suited up bureaucrat or executive bean counter.