+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS (/thread-3940.html)
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - shawny - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 06:56 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Kelly has great support, you look at Kennedy and Lang today and they are not up to it vs decent opposition, Cripps tried hard and Dow showed he has the goods when he has the footy and breaks away but its slim picking after that....when you have Obrien having to pick up Tomlinson on the wing its not a contest anymore.
What a terrible day. Sad thing is these sorts of losses are not even shocking anymore.
The development of mid field B graders like Kennedy and Lang must be addressed this trade period.
3 full years into a full rebuild and this area is still non competitive. Yes Fisher and Kreuzer were missing today bit they absolutely hammered us in there. And they had no Taranto and no Shiel. Kennedy looks like a decent footballer but is so slow and I hate how when he has a quiet one like today he provides the team with nothing. Lang I seriously cant see what all the hype was about. Might have looked like a decent B-C grade player in a strong Geelong midfield but in ours he looks a dud. Reckon Geelong bent us over again with this guy.
Pickett I don't know about anymore more. Had high hopes for him and yes I know he has had an injury interrupted season but hes another one that just gives nothing when having a quiet day. Its a bad trait IMO.
Wont bother on O'shea, Graham and Polson except to say makes life so much harder when you play 3 down.
Harry made me realise he might just live up to the talk - looks ready to have a breakout season like Charlie did this year, next year.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - LoveNavy - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 07:32 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Yes, I know they have plenty of talent, but I find them to be a very pure, very nuanced football team. Not that Richmond "frenetic midgets on speed" crap.
You said it. Lotsa people been thinkin it
GWS will be in GF is my prediction. Assuming their return from injury plan is not destroyed by more injury.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - cookie2 - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 07:37 AM)jeza link Wrote:As doom and gloom as it all is - Harry McKay looks the real deal. Polson was awesome in those few flashes and Dow is going to be a serious player.
Polson looks like he should clearly be still playing VFL as he's not ready but those bits of class and courage running back with the flight show you there is potential there.
Harry - sensational. He is going to monster some opposition over the next 10 years. Could he end up being better than Charlie? That thought hadn't even occurred to me until today but that was a massive step forward today under severe duress.
Dow stepping around, in and out of trouble. He doesn't have the extreme sideways immediate burst speed of Judd but he's got some similar traits.
There's something to go with the truckload of negatives from today.
Having said that I will storm Carlton HQ if we don't ask for a PP.
Pay all of that! We definitely need some positives to cling to atm.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - ElwoodBlues1 - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 07:42 AM)shawny link Wrote:What a terrible day. Sad thing is these sorts of losses are not even shocking anymore.
The development of mid field B graders like Kennedy and Lang must be addressed this trade period.
3 full years into a full rebuild and this area is still non competitive. Yes Fisher and Kreuzer were missing today bit they absolutely hammered us in there. And they had no Taranto and no Shiel. Kennedy looks like a decent footballer but is so slow and I hate how when he has a quiet one like today he provides the team with nothing. Lang I seriously cant see what all the hype was about. Might have looked like a decent B-C grade player in a strong Geelong midfield but in ours he looks a dud. Reckon Geelong bent us over again with this guy.
Pickett I don't know about anymore more. Had high hopes for him and yes I know he has had an injury interrupted season but hes another one that just gives nothing when having a quiet day. Its a bad trait IMO.
Wont bother on O'shea, Graham and Polson except to say makes life so much harder when you play 3 down.
Harry made me realise he might just live up to the talk - looks ready to have a breakout season like Charlie did this year, next year.
You nailed its Shawny...GWS played with us today and it was embarrassing...Kennedy is a good battler/C grade Indian but put him up against decent players and he cant cope...Lang is more of an opportunist and having to play midfield vs quality isnt his cup of tea especially when they have pace and skill like Kelly, Whitfield, Ward etc..
OShea is a VFL player only as is Graham and Polson would struggle vs a good U18 team...
Pickett...doesnt do enough.....we need a Tim Kelly not Pickett....
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - crashlander - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 06:09 AM)townsendcalling link Wrote:Ain’t Apples and apples unfortunately.
CARLTON
B: Liam Jones Alex Silvagni Jacob Weitering
HB: Kade Simpson Lachie Plowman Caleb Marchbank
C: Sam Docherty Patrick Cripps Jed Lamb
HF: Ed Curnow Dale Thomas Charlie Curnow
F: Liam Sumner Levi Casboult Matthew Wright
R: Matthew Kreuzer Bryce Gibbs Marc Murphy
Int: Jack Silvagni Zac Fisher David Cuningham Tom Williamson
As frustrated as I am, when I look at what we could put on the field and what we are presently able to put on the field, the result is pretty clear.
[1] From last year's winning team 12 players are missing. Of those, 2 was traded and 1 was delisted.
[2] Of the remaining players, one (Casboult) played in the 2nds yesterday and has not recovered from injury.
[3] Of the remaining, two (Marchbank and Murphy have missed more than half of the season and are not close to full fitness.
That is 15 players from last year's team.
Quote:Injury list heading into this game...Using Krud's list of injured players from the in-game thread, note that:
David Cuningham Hamstring Season
Jesse Glass-McCasker Knee 2 weeks
Sam Docherty* Knee Season
Zac Fisher Leg Season
Liam Jones Knee Season
Matthew Kreuzer Heart Test
Kym LeBois Hamstring 4 weeks
Cillian McDaid Foot 1 week
Andrew Phillips Hamstring Season
Lachie Plowman Knee Season
Alex Silvagni Achilles Season
Jacob Weitering Quad Test
Tom Williamson Back
Add in J. Silvagni who was a late out with injury
[1] 9 of the injured players would be preferred choices to play.
[2] One, (Phillips) would be a 2nd preference, but one who is a much better ruckman than the one we still had on the field (Lobbe) and is also considerably better than those we played against today (Dawson Simpson and Rory Lobb).
[3] Two are relatively untried and may yet be footballers.
Any way you look at it, we are lacking the first requirement to win games: talent on the field. Far too much of our talent is in the stands.
The second thing we are lacking is something very basic: we don't take out the best midfielder of the opposition. We have one tagging midfielder, Ed Curnow, who is the only man who tags in the midfield. This is a problem that the games against Hawthorn and GWS really have shown: we need another guy who can take out top mids. We cannot have guys like Kelly or Mitchell have 40 - 50 possessions in a game.
Our third issue is that our defenders do not get close enough to their opponents.
And from today, what have we done to deserve such ordinary umpiring? In the first half we were murdered. In all the noise about problems in the game, why don't they reward more tackles? According to Dermott Brereton, the stats show that about 5% of tackles are rewarded each game. Many of them involve vases of incorrect disposal, but these tend to be ignored. Why?
Rather than stuff around with the rules, why not enforce the ones we have?
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - jeza - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 07:46 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Pay all of that! We definitely need some positives to cling to atm.
Really hard to see the way back when you get hammered this badly. It can all turn around really quickly though. If we can keep our full team on the park, recruit well again and trade a few more seasoned bodies it may not be as bad as all that. GWS showed today the type of players SOS likes. Extreme endurance plus skill mixed with some good in and unders is pretty hard to beat.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - Robblues - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 07:53 AM)crashlander link Wrote:As frustrated as I am, when I look at what we could put on the field and what we are presently able to put on the field, the result is pretty clear.This is the reality we know but forget at times , our talent sits in the stand, we haven't been able to settle a side all year. Contunity is import when developing a young side mix in season performers they learn on the job. We lost most of the leaders, never replaced Gibbs with either player of leadership, Murphy & Doc through the lot out of balance we had to rely on the ones that should have been in the teaching zone. I don't think we are as bad as all that we have shown given a clear opportunity. We , even today shown glimpses of quality, it's just we don't or can't sew those together , better more experienced sides do that, it will come , leave Bolts, maybe some coaching changes, but to sack bolts would be crazy after the position we are in
[1] From last year's winning team 12 players are missing. Of those, 2 was traded and 1 was delisted.
[2] Of the remaining players, one (Casboult) played in the 2nds yesterday and has not recovered from injury.
[3] Of the remaining, two (Marchbank and Murphy have missed more than half of the season and are not close to full fitness.
That is 15 players from last year's team.
Using Krud's list of injured players from the in-game thread, note that:
[1] 9 of the injured players would be preferred choices to play.
[2] One, (Phillips) would be a 2nd preference, but one who is a much better ruckman than the one we still had on the field (Lobbe) and is also considerably better than those we played against today (Dawson Simpson and Rory Lobb).
[3] Two are relatively untried and may yet be footballers.
Any way you look at it, we are lacking the first requirement to win games: talent on the field. Far too much of our talent is in the stands.
The second thing we are lacking is something very basic: we don't take out the best midfielder of the opposition. We have one tagging midfielder, Ed Curnow, who is the only man who tags in the midfield. This is a problem that the games against Hawthorn and GWS really have shown: we need another guy who can take out top mids. We cannot have guys like Kelly or Mitchell have 40 - 50 possessions in a game.
Our third issue is that our defenders do not get close enough to their opponents.
And from today, what have we done to deserve such ordinary umpiring? In the first half we were murdered. In all the noise about problems in the game, why don't they reward more tackles? According to Dermott Brereton, the stats show that about 5% of tackles are rewarded each game. Many of them involve vases of incorrect disposal, but these tend to be ignored. Why?
Rather than stuff around with the rules, why not enforce the ones we have?
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - LoveNavy - 08-05-2018
I thought there were some glimpses of the future involving the youngsters.
Samo backed up last week's solid game. His clean hands and de a strength
H shined on a dull day. "Potential" translating to performance, contest by contest. The "hands like dinner plates" analogy beginning to show.
Polson has a lot of growth ahead. His pressure paid off a few times today.
Dow faded a bit late on but was clean, hard, and elusive. He's a ripper.
Crippa showed his perseverance. Leadership personified.
Charlie ran and competed well. Shame he missed that early goal.
Kennedy was workman like.
Lang, I can't work out. Seems unsure about what to do next.
LOB had a couple of nice deliveries i50. Could do with a rest IMO
The real handicaps we had today meant we too were playing a few short. That's a list management issuethough.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - Micky0 - 08-05-2018
This was our first game I’ve seen live since the Essendon game.
There are glimpses of something there.
But then someone does something stupid and GWS scored from it.
Please CFC no more dinky kicks in the oppositions F50. Never worked.
When there’s no one in front of you, please just keep running. Or stop and look around. Don’t kick it from 100m out and think that will work, it doesn’t.
Dow - Wow.
Pickett I thought def showed something
Samo unrelenting
Harry - there’s something there definitely.
Wright, Lang, was it O’Shea made some really annoying mistakes when we had momentum.
Umpiring wouldn’t have changed result but I’m sick of us not being rewarded for our tackling.
Decent crowd actually for what was always going to be 3 vs 18!
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - Lods - 08-05-2018
(08-05-2018, 06:53 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:I don't understand how we can ask for one after the CEO came out and categorically stated we will not ask. I look forward to hearing him explain his way out of that.
He goes to the AFL and says ..."Ï said we got ourselves into this mess and we'll get ourselves out. What I meant to say was.... We got ourselves into this mess and have NFI how to get ourselves out!"
There's really no harm in backing down from a position.
He'd get the support of most Carlton people.
Most commentators have been critical of the decision not to ask for one.
The only folk that would get excited are other clubs and their supporters...and they don't count.
Mind you a PP is not going to solve our problems.... but it's a start.
(08-05-2018, 07:14 AM)LP link Wrote:We won't get a PP even if we ask, we did this to ourselves deliberately.
GC are the opposite, they have a core of experienced players and are losing many of their best young players, yet they are as bad if not worse than us. They'll get a PP for sure which will devalue our later picks.
The system makes it almost impossible to get off the bottom.
That's always been my argument...but we've slipped way beyond that.
If it wasn't for GC being so awful this would be the worst season in our history.
Like Liddle.... it's time for a change of thinking.
We have achieved something I guess....
At least we've set a blueprint for how not to conduct a rebuild.
I still reckon we'll eventually come out of it, but we didn't need to suffer this much and it didn't need to take this long for signs of improvement. :
