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+--- Thread: Reset Rants (/thread-3761.html)
Re: Reset Rants - madbluboy - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:34 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Bartel on Access All Areas saying that Bolton should not be under any pressure. Said that he hopes the Blues fans are patient and "get their heads around the fact that a rebuild doesn't take 3 years anymore - you pay for past mistakes................" - reckons it's 5-6 years and for players like Charlie to get to 100 games.
Sign up that very sensible man now !
I must have missed Geelong on the bottom of the ladder for 5 or 6 years.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:41 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:There are several pundits I've listened t saying the same thing. I think most of us would accept that a rebuild such as ours takes time but I would think that to see a few signs of progress along the way in terms of improved performance would not be too much to ask? Is progress happening if there are no visible signs of it?
I think the problem with progress and decline is that neither is linear and both can be hard to detect. We finished 11th in 04, won the preseason cup in 05, and I'm sure people thought we were on the up, but clearly we weren't. Tigers finished 13th in 2016 and looked gone for all money. Predicting all this is the stuff of nightmares.
I didn't realise it at the time, but with the benefit of 6 rounds of footy, it seems as though this season is the "recession we had to have", the dip before the rise.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:46 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:I must have missed Geelong on the bottom of the ladder for 5 or 6 years.
Bolton shouldn't be judged or punished for indiscretions before his time.
Re: Reset Rants - madbluboy - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:52 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Bolton shouldn't be judged or punished for indiscretions before his time.
Bartel says rebuilds take 5 or 6 years, where did he get this from?
Re: Reset Rants - Raydan - 04-30-2018
It's funny the people here who used to complain about not rebuilding properly and we just want a quick fix are now complaining that Carlton need a quick fix.
So lets bring some facts into the conversation;
1. - We started to rebuild two seasons and 6 games ago.
2. - It is considered that most players don't really find their way until the hit the 60-80 mark.
3. - None of our new players have hit the 50 game mark yet, so realistically they still have a season or two to go before they get it that 60-80 game zone.
4. - We don't have those players who are in the "golden part" (24-28 years old) of their careers. Simpson, Murphy, Daisy and Kruezer are all past it, Doc and Cripps are about to hit it and who ever else is either too young or not good enough to matter.
5 - We have been playing with a big chunk of our first named players out. Put Doc and Williamson in ahead of Mullet and O'Shea and we get and more solid defence as well as better ball use coming off half back. Murphy, Kruezer and Lang through the centre and Pickett up forward would all make this side better. That's not to mention a fit and in form Weitering and Byrne would help significantly. We do not have the depth and or experience to cover these losses. Not to mention McKay, Dow, O'Brien all with 5 or less games. I know the Bulldogs had more in that bracket, but they have a lot of young veterans with 100-150 games experience and the majority of those are their best players.
6 - This year is going to be hard and probably next year too, Carlton is doing something it has never done before, rebuild through the draft. It does take time, it isn't an exact science and we will have some misses with our drafting. See St.Kilda and Melbourne, both were supposed to be better than this yet neither team looks to be ready and they are two years ahead of us. Brisbane started this rebuild the year before us and they are sitting down the bottom too, the difference is their senior players are in that 24-28 bracket, so really they should be better than they are.
7 - SPS has second year blues, we have wrecked Weitering last year and Charlie is carrying a big load by himself, but in contrast Fisher looks like a jet and has just extended his contract, Dow will join the Cripps/Kennedy midfield, making it a nightmare for teams to match up on in the coming years. O'Brien looks to have amazing foot skills and can run all day. Harry looks like he needs breaking in, but in his 4 games is averaging 2 goals an outing.
8 - Our upside is huge, but potential is a dirty word in professional sports, so if you can't stand waiting I would suggest that you follow another sport for a couple of years. Just look at Essendon they went the quick easy path and it will make them look foolish, the media were tipping a top 4 finish, they will be lucky to make the 8 and the mercs they got will ruin the club.
9 - Other than the losses the main thing I've stopped is listening to SEN and watching Fox Footy as I'm sick of the Carlton bashing by guys that really have no idea on how to build a list. You have hypocrite Roos saying we need to score more, yet his Sydney sides often played in 60-55 point games and his Melbourne side couldn't kick any scores for the first couple of seasons. Cornes slags us off without knowing that we have 10 injured players. As I said to a Geelong workmate, take your top 4 b&F winners from last season and a prized recruit, your developing CHB and a promising HBF as well as a small forward with skill and pace plus a willingness to tackle and put them out for a month and see how many games you win, in fact do that to any club and I'm sure they will struggle to win 1. Now look at out scenario again where we were tipped to finish bottom 4, is there any wonder as to why we are struggling?
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:58 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Bartel says rebuilds take 5 or 6 years, where did he get this from?
I don't know where he pulled that number from.
@raydan.
Top post.
Re: Reset Rants - cookie2 - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 02:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I think the problem with progress and decline is that neither is linear and both can be hard to detect. We finished 11th in 04, won the preseason cup in 05, and I'm sure people thought we were on the up, but clearly we weren't. Tigers finished 13th in 2016 and looked gone for all money. Predicting all this is the stuff of nightmares.
I didn't realise it at the time, but with the benefit of 6 rounds of footy, it seems as though this season is the "recession we had to have", the dip before the rise.
OK so we haven't yet reached that critical "flex" or "click" point yet where we suddenly start showing improvement? The Tigers may be a good example to give us a glimmer of hope as it doesn't seem long ago that we joked about their talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Now, with a cup in their cabinet, they specialise in just grinding teams down into submission with relentless pressure footy.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 04-30-2018
(04-30-2018, 03:10 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:OK so we haven't yet reached that critical "flex" or "click" point yet where we suddenly start showing improvement? The Tigers may be a good example to give us a glimmer of hope as it doesn't seem long ago that we joked about their talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Now, with a cup in their cabinet, they specialise in just grinding teams down into submission with relentless pressure footy.
The future is wildly unpredictable, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do things the right way, or at least a better way.
Re: Reset Rants - cookie2 - 04-30-2018
@ Raydan
Enjoyed reading that post! Makes a lot of sense but calls for a lot of patience. I'm in btw - I don't see any other viable alternative atm.
Re: Reset Rants - BluePhantom - 04-30-2018
So, by the looks of it we will be getting Pick 1 or 2 this year again.
Will we go asking the AFL for a priority pick as well?
Would they give it to us, would the media put together s scare campaign?
I think we deserve a PPick!