+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: The Quick Fix (/thread-3727.html)
Re: The Quick Fix - blue4life - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 05:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:But this is where our list management in the past has failed us.
The list is actually quite lengthy and whilst I would be reluctant to move on too many, sometimes you move on whats better value.
For me, the only trade out that could cause someone to part with something, is Levi Casboult. Now, I know hes not worth blah blah blah, but if Zach Tuohy can get us a first rounder, you never know what Casboult can get.
Also, I wouldnt be chopping Mckay without looking at the opportunity cost.
It's got me beaten why a lot of Carlton supporters still think that Levi has trade value.
As for Tuohy, he was 26 years old, durable, tough, and with excellent skills.
He was AA nominated in 2017 and Geelong's first rounder was never going to be a top 10 pick, it's highly debatable whether we got full value for him but clubs often lose out when out of contract players want to leave.
If we want to trade in someone decent or get a draft pick worth having we need to forget about swapping Casboult, Mullet, Phillips or any other fringe players we've got clogging up our list, someone like McKay is the only commodity we have with market appeal.
Re: The Quick Fix - blue4life - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 05:40 AM)pew2 link Wrote:one player who could get us good draft value is plowman, i would trade him for the right deal.To me has been flying under the radar (weitering and jones) taking all the heat but wat has he done that makes him so special,can any1 mention a game where LP dominated
I agree, not so much Plowman specifically but he's the type of player who could attract interest.
We're a bottom four club, no one will be interested in our flotsam and jetsam.
Re: The Quick Fix - dodge - 04-18-2018
Particularly when our flotsam and jetsam has already come from other clubs
Re: The Quick Fix - LP - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 04:49 AM)blue4life link Wrote:It won't be at the end of this season, he'll have been at the club for three years by then so if we hang onto him and he doesn't measure up in 2019 his value will be approaching zero.
Better to play him and see what he's made of.
For a midfielder or utility I think 3 years is enough, most 200cm types are not much good until they are 23 or 24, that's the five year or more mark! I'm afraid that is just reality for most tall KPPs or typical Rucks.
Joe Daniher was pretty much a spud for his first 4 years, but they were playing him in the 1s.
I'll say this though, what I have seen of De Koning I have him way ahead of McKay in terms of work rate and mobility. If De Koning was a big stronger, he may even have Kerr covered. When Lobbe returns things will get very interesting at VFL level, it's not clear to me who stays and who goes, I suspect Kerr deserves to stay!
We may find that when Phillips and Lobbe are up and about Kreuzer will get mothballed.
De Koning is not quite as good at ground level as McKay, but then again McKay only makes an effort at ground level occasionally which is part of his current problem.
Kerr is probably the weakest of the three at ground level, but the strongest overhead and the hardest worker, Kerr has a bit more footy smarts I suppose he needs them not having a natural height advantage.
Kerr creates opportunities for team-mates, McKay takes advantage of them!
I really do not understand why Kerr hasn't yet got a gig, he'd work well with Charlie, the coaches must have a reason we cannot see.
The other thing I like about Kerr is he is a redhead, most seasoned and successful redheads are as hard as nails, they(Inclusive of all redheads) seem to be all one way or the other, soft as butter or hard as concrete!
Re: The Quick Fix - blue4life - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 05:58 AM)LP link Wrote:For a midfielder or utility I think 3 years is enough, most 200cm types are not much good until they are 23 or 24, that's the five year or more mark! I'm afraid that is just reality for most tall KPPs or typical Rucks.
Joe Daniher was pretty much a spud for his first 4 years, but they were playing him in the 1s.
Daniher was showing plenty in his first two seasons, McKay can't get a game in a bottom side which struggles to kick more than 60 points.
It's nonsense that tall players are no good until they're 24 or 25, the good ones don't take that long.
Re: The Quick Fix - LP - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 06:08 AM)blue4life link Wrote:It's nonsense that tall players are no good until they're 24 or 25, the good ones don't take that long.
Can you provide some examples, that aren't named Franklin? Even Franklin was a highlight reel player until about his 4th season!
Showing "signs" or being "good" are pretty subjective terms B4L, what are the numbers, what is "good"?
Would you say,
Taylor Walker
Josh Jenkins
Josh Kennedy
Jack Riewoldt
Jarryd Roughead
None of them much chop in terms of being statistically good until after season 3 or 4, highlights sure, but before season 4 nothing of real substance!
I could add,
Charlie Dixon
Jarrad Waite
Tom Hawkins
Jack Darling
but they were even slower starters!
That means most of them come good around 23 or older, McKay is a bottom ager, he'll be 23 at the end of 2020! And fairness to McKay, most of the above were playing in and around established older players who could show them the ropes! Do we judge McKay by what he learns off our older KPFs, that being primarily Levi?
Sort of sucks doesn't it, I'm starting to see what Judd meant!
Re: The Quick Fix - Hubba - 04-18-2018
Don't forget McKay missed his whole first season with a back injury also.
Re: The Quick Fix - blue4life - 04-18-2018
With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
Re: The Quick Fix - LP - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 06:51 AM)blue4life link Wrote:With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
B4L, Diesel Williams was 21 in his first season and had come through VFL level competitions playing against men. Also the mentoring effect, he played besides guys like Ablett Snr, Bruns, Turner, Peake, Yeates, Bews and Neal. Not a spud amongst them!
I don't have to tell you who Kouta had to learn off.
Modern kids are 18, and come out of the TAC Cup playing against boys, so you can understand why many AFL clubs want a Reserves competition.
We'd probably kill to have some experience Harry could play alongside!
Re: The Quick Fix - Thryleon - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 06:51 AM)blue4life link Wrote:With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
Year 2.
He broke his leg in year 1 (debut 2014).
Year 2 he hit the ground running and we all realised we had a live one. He won the John Nicholls medal in 2015.