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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - shawny - 01-24-2022

Andrews is copping more criticism over his 'code brown' response which is designed to ease pressure on the health system. He's already backflipped on IVF being deemed as elective, which was always going to happen once the media jumped on the young women emotional TV appearance about her missing her chance to have children. All of a sudden the science supported IVF not being elective -X

Now senior surgeons are saying the blanket restriction has not been thought through as there are a several 'elective' surgeries that  apply very little pressure to the health system yet assist patients getting better quicker and ease the pressure on another back log once restrictions are lifted. He said day procedures that don't require stays overnight can be safely preformed during this time and stopping them is simply non sensical.

We have 120 odd in ICU in a state of over 6.5 million. One ICU bed per 55,000 in a state with 90% plus vaxed against statistically the weakest Covid variant and we are lead to believe the system is overwhelmed to the extent where restrictions this dire are necessary.  If this is true then our health system needs a serious overhaul.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 04:32 AM)shawny link Wrote:Andrews is copping more criticism over his 'code brown' response which is designed to ease pressure on the health system. He's already backflipped on IVF being deemed as elective, which was always going to happen once the media jumped on the young women emotional TV appearance about her missing her chance to have children. All of a sudden the science supported IVF not being elective -X

Now senior surgeons are saying the blanket restriction has not been thought through as there are a several 'elective' surgeries that  apply very little pressure to the health system yet assist patients getting better quicker and ease the pressure on another back log once restrictions are lifted. He said day procedures that don't require stays overnight can be safely preformed during this time and stopping them is simply non sensical.

We have 120 odd in ICU in a state of over 6.5 million. One ICU bed per 55,000 in a state with 90% plus vaxed against statistically the weakest Covid variant and we are lead to believe the system is overwhelmed to the extent where restrictions this dire are necessary.  If this is true then our health system needs a serious overhaul.

Whilst I share the sentiment over the last few weeks at work I noticed that the furlough numbers at my old healthcare employer were at roughly 10% of the workforce being off for at least the last 4 weeks.

This doesn't apply solely to medical staff.  People eat, linen gets washed, people are admitted and booked in, payroll staff organise for pay, it work is done, health information services apply coding data nurse educators provide nurses with education etc.

Each department runs with minimal staff at maximum efficiency.  The pandemic has caused a burnout in these places on a level I personally hadn't seen before.  Thing is the pandemic response has been as big an issue as the pandemic itself.  You have a lot of staff who have had no meaningful break from work, and no time off at all. 

They are monitoring 10000 patients in the community along with pcr testing, and vaccine administration, and the regular fulfilment of services despite what the numbers look like on covid statistics.

Surgical booking and the like, is something that can scale.  Despite "restrictions" category 1 and category 2 patients continue their surgeries as scheduled and what isn't happening are the cat 3s and 4s (which are bing done as category 1 because there is no sense stopping everything when not necessary).

The pandemic isn't stopping hospitals from operating, they just aren't using 100% capacity to cater for surge where necessary.  Thing is, that's a sliding scale.

Don't buy into the external noise.  They don't listen to what's going on in the healthcare networks its designed to make you outraged.

The real question I have is why are you outraged?

The health care networks are stretched staff wise but not because the kick up in patients solely, its because of the potential kick up.  One health service monitoring over 10k patients who are covid positive and not admitted is something someone needs to plan for even if you don't think it's necessary because if they all need up needing care, it does need some provisioning and the code brown is as much about furlough as it is the pandemic.  There is no use someone being monitored for a cardiac arrest or stroke by a covid positive nurse or doctor or pushed around by a covid positive PSA or served food by a covid positive kitchen staffer.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 01-24-2022

[member=153]LP[/member] Regarding change the only thing permanent is change.  During the pandemic ive operated on a plan for the worst and plan for the best case scenario but ultimately my employer made it easy for me to embrace change because of their sheer short sightedness (yes, Vic health).

I plunged 10% of cash into the stock market last year to Kickstart a retirement fund.  Tick.  Bought blue chip stocks at discounts not seen since the GFC, and most have recovered quite nicely.

I commenced a course in cyber security to leverage a growing demand in my industry whilst in lockdown.  This may or may not pay off but im learning things which is good enough and at worst broadens my skillset.

The other thing I've done is leveraged the vaccine mandate to get myself a promotion and career growth using the vaccine to my advantage.  Lots of anti vax sentiment in IT land, has resulted in shortages of people who will be dedicated to the task and appropriately qualified.  Thats got me into a role i lack formal qualifications for but I have some experience doing as part of a helper of sorts.  End result a smaller company recognised i can fill a hole and have taken a bit of a gamble based on my potential to fill the need.



These things will pay dividends in time, once covid is a thing of the past and maybe sooner if I'm lucky, but even if covid is here to stay, I've done what I can to profit from a shit situation, now its do what I can to avoid infection and stay safe.  Easy enough to do. 

All the while I have been critical of some of the strategy and government response, for its somewhat hypocrisy.  As a health care worker I spent more time in the covid firing line than the average employee.  I didn't qualify for the payments that other employees got for being in that firing line because of a lack of understanding of people to see that some staff go into the danger zone and come out again rather than doing a full shift in an equivalent where there were no covid positive patients.

This also meant no proactive testing for us.  A big stuff up from staff who only see the patient care experience from the clinical perspective which was arguably what made it easy for me to jump out of that space.

Ironically, I'm facing more restriction from my new client side about attending than I did at a health service who publically told staff not to move around and then internally asked why it took so long to see someone from IT and encouraged seeing more people as soon as possible. 

This is where the government lack empathy for the common person and are solely reacting with a lack of fore thought to all the things.  Its like the effort goes into the key visible reaction rather than the unseen prevention and a cynic will state its because no votes or glory is won in areas that aren't publicly visible...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 01-24-2022

Re code Brown...
Instead of the government trying to get a grasp on the intricacies of the hospital system, and the differences between hospitals....

.... why not allow hospitals to make their own calls?
If they want to cancel ivf, day surgeries etc etc then do it.  If not, don't. If they want to change their mind, then do it.

Is it not that simple?
What am I missing?



Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - shawny - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 06:32 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Re code Brown...
Instead of the government trying to get a grasp on the intricacies of the hospital system, and the differences between hospitals....

.... why not allow hospitals to make their own calls?
If they want to cancel ivf, day surgeries etc etc then do it.  If not, don't. If they want to change their mind, then do it.

Is it not that simple?
What am I missing?

Exactly!  But that takes common sense which this government during this pandemic has shown an inability to use and with a power trip premier at the helm a blanket restriction is more in his kit bag.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 01-24-2022

It isn't that simple.

Follow the funding model for hospitals and you will have your answer.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 09:23 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:It isn't that simple.

Follow the funding model for hospitals and you will have your answer.

OK, so money controls everything, we know that, but what does that change in this scenario?


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - shawny - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 09:23 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:It isn't that simple.

Follow the funding model for hospitals and you will have your answer.

So the surgeons at the coal face saying they should proceed with certain elective procedures are ill informed?

I have had to deal with a few of the very top surgeons over the years and there is no greater respect I have for anyone in any field then those guys. There are hero’s, who work crazy hours because they are devoted to the cause and apart from being the smartest people I have ever encountered, there wasn’t much about the health and hospital system as a whole they did not have a good grip on.

So if you saying we should take the governments decision over several respected surgeons view who have spoke against the restriction not a chance.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 10:03 AM)shawny link Wrote:So the surgeons at the coal face saying they should proceed with certain elective procedures are ill informed?

I have had to deal with a few of the very top surgeons over the years and there is no greater respect I have for anyone in any field then those guys. There are hero’s, who work crazy hours because they are devoted to the cause and apart from being the smartest people I have ever encountered, there wasn’t much about the health and hospital system as a whole they did not have a good grip on.

So if you saying we should take the governments decision over several respected surgeons view who have spoke against the restriction not a chance.
the surgeons are not running the place.

The government are the ones who set the accreditation standards. 

The government funds the place using tax payers dollars.

The nurses are generally the ones that run hospitals.

Surgeons, are surgeons.  Brilliant at what they do, but they don't run health services, even if they run their own private practise.  Most of them are poor at anything but their specialty.  In fact, they're highly specialized and usually pretty crap with the finer details of things outside their profession including being notoriously bad at managing finances.

Next time you speak to your top notch surgeon, ask them about how the health services are funded.

They wouldn't know.  They don't know that the government funds e erything based on health information managers applying codes to each and every treatment that is administered in a hospital encounter.  Heck, most of them don't even write their own notes.

The government doesn't do a Stirling job of everything.  I've been employed by a health service since Chris Judd last played for West coast, and the biggest issue I had with what they did with money was how they consumed their budget to ensure they got a similar amount next year, but they do service all parts of the community in like fashion, and they don't share staff across health services because there are additional considerations there regarding employment contracts, resourcing, training, and ensuring that staff actually know what they're doing at each health service.





Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - shawny - 01-24-2022

(01-24-2022, 10:23 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:the surgeons are not running the place.

The government are the ones who set the accreditation standards. 

The government funds the place using tax payers dollars.

The nurses are generally the ones that run hospitals.

Surgeons, are surgeons.  Brilliant at what they do, but they don't run health services, even if they run their own private practise.  Most of them are poor at anything but their specialty.  In fact, they're highly specialized and usually pretty crap with the finer details of things outside their profession including being notoriously bad at managing finances.

Next time you speak to your top notch surgeon, ask them about how the health services are funded.

They wouldn't know.  They don't know that the government funds e erything based on health information managers applying codes to each and every treatment that is administered in a hospital encounter.  Heck, most of them don't even write their own notes.

The government doesn't do a Stirling job of everything.  I've been employed by a health service since Chris Judd last played for West coast, and the biggest issue I had with what they did with money was how they consumed their budget to ensure they got a similar amount next year, but they do service all parts of the community in like fashion, and they don't share staff across health services because there are additional considerations there regarding employment contracts, resourcing, training, and ensuring that staff actually know what they're doing at each health service.

Fair enough.

Agree to disagree on this one. I would back the surgeons in and the ones I knew had a lot of knowledge about the system they operated in. I understand your point just struggle to back the government over them. 

Anyhow on a completely different front you mentioned Chris Judd. My wife and I happen to sit with the great man and his family on a plane last week. Very down to earth all of them and couldn’t believe how well behaved the kids are!  Chris looks like he could still play by the way. His son had a cough and beck said don’t worry it’s not corona and chris grinned and said it’s not a good time to have a cough!
Geez I loved watching him in his prime. How many games when you could really see he was on another level to everyone on the field.