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+--- Thread: The Great Ruck Debate. (/thread-6556.html)
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Thryleon - 06-29-2024
Not to mention how strong your mids are. I'd like to see how pittonet and tdk would fare without cripps, Kennedy and Walsh on. Oh hang on, we same both of thems truggle vs Sydney and it wasn't because there was two rucks, it was because the Sydney midfield smashed us.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - DJC - 06-29-2024
(06-29-2024, 04:55 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Not to mention how strong your mids are. I'd like to see how pittonet and tdk would fare without cripps, Kennedy and Walsh on. Oh hang on, we same both of thems truggle vs Sydney and it wasn't because there was two rucks, it was because the Sydney midfield smashed us.
That brings us back to the hitouts to advantage debate. No matter how good your ruckman is, he’ll get very few HTAs if your midfielders are spuds.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Lods - 06-29-2024
(06-29-2024, 04:44 AM)DJC link Wrote:Nice work getting the thread back on topic LP ?
It was never really off topic.
Threads are a bit like a snake...they sometimes go where they want to go and if the snake catcher isn't there they can make themselves at home.
Kruddler gave an example of where 'no real rucks' worked for us.
The debate then turned to the quality of the opposition at the time, which has to be a factor in assessing the ruck impact.
In isolation posts may have looked 'off topic' but in the context of the debate....they were relevant.
That's one of the issues with the whole debate...the number of variables and factors that have to be considered.
And that leads to different points of view as to what is best.
If we have a full list to choose from I struggle to find a place for two rucks if it also means finding a place for Cerra, Cottrell and maybe Motlop.
We could be facing that situation in the next couple of games and it will be interesting to see how the match committee approaches it.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - PaulP - 06-29-2024
I’ve taken a low level interest in this discussion. I’m not really invested in one solution. I’m happy for the MC to make a call based on their superior knowledge of all things football. If that means 0,1,2 or 10 rucks, I’ll back them in.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 06-29-2024
(06-29-2024, 06:15 AM)PaulP date Wrote:I’ve taken a low level interest in this discussion. I’m not really invested in one solution. I’m happy for the MC to make a call based on their superior knowledge of all things football. If that means 0,1,2 or 10 rucks, I’ll back them in.That's largely my position, it's the MC and a horses for courses approach, I find it absurd anyone could think there is only one viable tactical solution.
Especially when many posters on here continually complain about no Plan-B!
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - PaulP - 06-29-2024
I wonder if Voss and co may be looking at Fremantle’s ruck setup. Darcy is the anchor, like a better version of Pittonet, and Jackson is the mobile, athletic one, like Tom De Koning. I’m safely assuming (hoping) the MC will leave nothing to chance and will continue to thoroughly explore all options, even if that means a variable, horses for courses approach, based on the best solution for the opposition.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - PaulP - 06-29-2024
Pat, I was typing and didn’t see your post.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 06-29-2024
(06-29-2024, 06:32 AM)PaulP date Wrote:I wonder if Voss and co may be looking at Fremantle’s ruck setup. Darcy is the anchor, like a better version of Pittonet, and Jackson is the mobile, athletic one, like Tom De Koning. I’m safely assuming (hoping) the MC will leave nothing to chance and will continue to thoroughly explore all options, even if that means a variable, horses for courses approach, based on the best solution for the opposition.I'd wonder the same, would you try to get a game into Pitto before then?
I won't be surprised to see a late change against Nthmond, because Darcy and Jackson are a big ask coming in from the cold!
Given Freo have defeated Swans, Darcy / Jackson versus the Grundy / KPF combo, is there a blueprint?
Darcy is not mobile, but he had 5 clearances against Grundy, is the bull ruck a Grundy weakness?
Lots to mull over.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Thryleon - 06-29-2024
(06-29-2024, 06:32 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I wonder if Voss and co may be looking at Fremantle’s ruck setup. Darcy is the anchor, like a better version of Pittonet, and Jackson is the mobile, athletic one, like Tom De Koning. I’m safely assuming (hoping) the MC will leave nothing to chance and will continue to thoroughly explore all options, even if that means a variable, horses for courses approach, based on the best solution for the opposition.
It's not just the opposition.
Its also the mids below. Would our rucks go as well with a second string midfield going around at their feet?
Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Walsh, cerra. All capable of winning the clearance.
Would freos ruck duo worked as well with our slower bigger midfield crew?
How would our rucks go in their midfield setup?
All pointed questions.
We've argued about the stats, and the ladder but the scoreboard lies too.
14.14 to 15.9. On paper freo won, but in practice did they win easily? I haven't seen any of it, so I don't know, the stats can lie.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 06-29-2024
The issues of run and carry having one or two rucks are vastly overstated by opponents of the two rucks, it's really not an issue.
When you run two rucks there are three main scenarios;
A:- One Ruck on the Ground, One on the Bench
B:- Two Rucks on the Ground
C:- Both Rucks on the Bench
A is the most common, but it's not 100% of the time. B happens more than people realise and C rarely happens but it does happen.
Time on the bench isn't necessarily causing a lack of run, a significant portion of the reported bench time happens when players take set shots for goal, most using the full 30s plus some, then there is the obligatory Ad after every goal not just set shots. It a flaw of stats that bench time isn't just measured against Time On, a rather uncomfortably large chuck of time is standing or sitting there waiting for the red light to flash!
The time a ruck occupies can obviously vary, but it's an interval largely distributed across the rest of the team. I heard one of our players(McGovern or Hewett if I recall correctly) described playing the second ruck reduced bench time for the rest of players by about 60-90s per player for the entire game. That is because it's a distribution, whether it's proportional to run or distributed evenly is really an MC issue.
Of course opponents of playing the two rucks like to make it sound bad, they like to talk totals, he spent 18 minutes on the bench, he spent 22 minutes on the bench, but of course that 18 or 22 minutes is distributed across 21 team-mates. If we use bench time averages and report it as our players spent 65s or 83s less on the bench across the whole game, it barely registers as a concern.