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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda (/thread-6199.html)
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - madbluboy - 08-06-2023
(08-06-2023, 11:01 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Not quite sure I understand the negativity around that win, or the first half in particular. St Kilda's pressure was off the charts. Ross Lyon teams are never easy to beat, never easy to score against. They've been in the top 8 since early in the year for a reason. That was a super win IMO.
We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Blue Moon - 08-07-2023
St.Kilda strikes me as a team that really believed they can beat Carlton. The formula is simple. Apply pressure and wait for Carlton to fold. This has been Plan A for playing Carlton for a while. St.Kilda came out and applied pressure and Carlton gave up three goals to midfield errors, Dow, Fisher and Docherty, missed a couple of goals we should have kicked, Cottrall, and basically kicked long bombs to a two on one situation when going forward. However we didn't fold and we kept persisting and started using our spare in the midfield to attack through. Goals by Motlop, Dow, Owies and two by Acres came about because St.Kilda had two players on Curnow and we had a player spare elsewhere. The question for other teams is what are they going to do when Plan A against Carlton doesn't work.
Others on this site are always bemoaning our depth and, always wanting to sack everyone and are quick to deride our players. We had seven or eight players unavailable who would be considered strongly for our best twenty-three yet we are playing the best football the club has played for over twenty years. Dow and Fisher were amongst the best. Winners win because they win. Losers lose because they lose. Carlton is starting to become a winner's team again at last.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - PaulP - 08-07-2023
(08-06-2023, 11:47 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
Yes, I generally agree.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - WASurfer - 08-07-2023
Huge win given Saints were 5th on the ladder and always make it hard for us, and we were missing arguably 6 players from our best 22....almost as good and as important as last week against the Pies.
Newman was superb again and his form this season has been fantastic.
Acres continues to impress. I commented at the start of the season that he would be a big recruit for us and give us plenty of improvement. Some knocks on his kicking from time to time but yesterday he was one of the best in the first half when not much was going right and kept it up in the second half. He was getting the ball at every positon on the ground and the bigger body helps out without the likes of Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra not out there. The running goal to seal it was a brilliant individual effort.
Dow....his first half was riddled with the same panic disposals and dumb footy moments but to his credit, he stuck at it and was one of the reasons we lifted in the second half. Earned his spot.
Fisher...certainly his best game this year and one of the best he's played for us IMO. Like Acres, was good in the first half when we weren't playing that well.
TDK/Pitto were both non-existent in the first half but both lifted after half time. Marshall makes a habit of starring against us.
Great to win without a bag from Charlie too. We might need to get creative up forward next week against Melbourne as May and Lever will be double teaming Charlie from the opening bounce.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - pinot - 08-07-2023
(08-06-2023, 11:47 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
Spot On...and likely take Kempy out of the team now as well. It's getting beyond a pale.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Lods - 08-07-2023
(08-06-2023, 11:01 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Not quite sure I understand the negativity around that win, or the first half in particular. St Kilda's pressure was off the charts. Ross Lyon teams are never easy to beat, never easy to score against. They've been in the top 8 since early in the year for a reason. That was a super win IMO.
I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bringing our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.
Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.
Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.
I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - DJC - 08-07-2023
(08-06-2023, 08:33 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Was a good goal and he looked quicker than I have seen him before, hopefully the club dont feel the need to waste money on Jade Gresham given the form of our small forwards in recent weeks.
I'm not convinced that our "interest" in Gresham is anything more than a media beat up. However, if that was an audition, I think that it's "no deal!"
Motlop has become a more complete footballer since his spell in the magoos. He is taking the game on and making the most of his opportunities as well as doing the hard work. He and Owies have different skillsets that, in combination, make life very difficult for the opposition defence.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - shawny - 08-07-2023
(08-06-2023, 12:08 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:You were right on Dow GTC...Voss was going to sub him off until that goal went through
didn’t like that honest insight from Voss thought it wasn’t needed. What did that achieve other then make the kid who has struggled to see any faith shown from Voss being started as a sub countless times feel like he is still very much on the outer. He even cracked the joke they would rip the stands down if we subbed him so he couldn’t do it.
I would have preferred Voss to use that game to generate as much confidence for Dow from it as possible with no negatives but instead now feels like not much has changed.
Obvious Voss is still not a fan and Dow will be delisted at seasons end which as a depth mid on min contract I would be happy to retain him but don’t see it happening.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - DJC - 08-07-2023
(08-07-2023, 02:05 AM)Lods link Wrote:I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bring our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.
Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.
Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.
I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.
St Kilda's pressure in the first half was manic, as several of our players commented. However, it was very pleasing that our players had confidence in their ability to overcome the Saints.
While Charlie was kept to one goal, his ability to win contests up the ground and hit targets inside 50 was vital. I guess that's the role many folk thought he'd play. It's also what makes the Charlie/Harry combination so difficult to combat. They're both more than capable of playing up the ground or out of the goal square.
Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - laj - 08-07-2023
Pity we can't make top 4. If we could, we would be some massive flag chance.