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+--- Thread: China (/thread-5591.html)
Re: China - Gointocarlton - 06-08-2022
(06-08-2022, 12:20 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:We should be declaring things like calling political figures names (aka Dutton = Voldemort) as a faux par, and not done.Agreed
We try to make a statement at societal level regarding bullying, and attacking someone's appearance, sexuality, gender, ethnic background etc should be off limits.
Its very low brow, and these people are role models after all. We throw the book at AFL footballers for behaving like twats and then give our politicians a pass... Not cool.
Re: China - cookie2 - 06-08-2022
The US admin has its plate full at the moment with events in Ukraine and trying to resolve competing opinions among its various groupings as to what actions should be taken. Add in China and events may be sliding out of its control. Hopefully it won't lead to reckless actions.
Re: China - Mav - 06-08-2022
When he stops behaving like Voldemort, I’ll stop calling him Voldemort.
Re: China - Mav - 06-08-2022
Maybe I should just insinuate he’d bullied someone to death. That sort of despicable behaviour doesn’t seem to be off limits, does it Thry?
Re: China - Mav - 06-08-2022
It is a relief to see the Fed Govt using diplomacy to thwart Chinese influence. Yes, I know the LNP also used diplomacy: megaphone diplomacy. But maybe building alliances rather than assuming them has some merit.
Quote: China is currently engaged in high visibility courtship of the Indo-Pacific and Wong is countering with her own hearts and minds tour. Her predecessor Marise Payne was a serious and competent person but she wasn’t performative, either by temperament or design.
Wong isn’t performing either. Her intention is persuasion. As she orbits the region, Australia’s new foreign minister is asking Pacific countries, Indonesia, other south-east Asian nations a specific question – what sort of region do we want to be?
The question affords Australia’s neighbours respect and agency and it also leaves some room for nuance. Not every neighbour views China in the same way Australia does, and not every neighbour’s view is informed and shaped by the security alliance that Australia has sought with the US ever since John Curtin looked to America.
Wong’s open-ended pitch is intended to respect national differences as much as the commonalities. The question is also designed to prompt neighbours to look beyond their immediate material needs, and consider how they would like things to be in the next 10 or 20 years.
Australia’s strategic contrast with Beijing is implied, not stated. China’s courtship engages developing countries at the transactional level – what are your immediate needs and how can partnership with us serve them?
Wong is entirely comfortable in this zone because she is a child of the region. Her own story projects the fundamentals of her message: we all have unique traits but we have shared and blended destinies.
So that’s the personal. When it comes to the political, Wong is a child of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and the doctrine of Asian integration.
But Wong doesn’t govern in times of regional equanimity. China’s regression towards authoritarianism and the escalation of great power competition has handed the current government a more fraught set of dynamics. Albanese and Wong possess the Keating instincts, but they have to tweak and tune the model.
This joint project from Albanese and Wong remains a work in progress.
It is clear Australia’s voice is being heard in the region – and that’s in no small part due to Penny Wong, The Guardian.
Re: China - LP - 06-08-2022
(06-08-2022, 12:09 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:They are building a naval base in Cambodia and it's clear they intend to isolate Taiwan from other nations and then create a blockade of sorts and make it impossible for them to function and then force a takeover.Some think China already run Taiwan, and the protestations are just a smokescreen.
Many see Taiwan as China's enabler, the tool China maintains and uses to bypass most international law, be it human rights, patents or finance. The USA and Britain (probably the whole Five Eyes) turn a blind eye to this because it works both ways, China steals global IP, but everybody also gets to covertly see what China is up to. Nobody can plug Taiwan's leaks.
But for Australia while it pays at a certain security level it really hurts business, exports and innovation, because pretty much as soon as some product gets developed China has stolen the IP via Taiwan and Taiwan remains outside of the treaties and protections, not obliged to conform to global patents or laws. The problem is Australia isn't economically big enough to matter, so it has no leverage outside of what Britain, the EU or the US chose to do for us!
Australia has been either negligent, stupid or racist for too low ignoring it's powerful neighbours, who equally see China as a threat. We should have established a strong SE Asian economic zone years and years ago, and turned Indonesia, Malaysia and The Philippines against a common enemy. Then negotiated with India as a block of nations. Instead we have allowed China to infiltrate those economies and they have as a result made Australia a regional political pariah.
PS; I'm all for the Submarine deal, not because we need them, but because of the alliance it establishes, the ties it strengthens. In comparison France gives us nothing, we could buy 10x as much from France and they are more likely to throw us under the bus when the shizen hits the fan, the EU and many of it's member states are fundamentally untrustworthy because they are flaky sellouts.
As for the anti-nuclear sub protestors, I've no interest in the anti-nuclear parrots. In any case, the tell that the deal was done happened straight after the election, when labour announced the purchase of missiles that are useless when housed on a conventional platform. If the platform cannot loiter indefinitely the missiles are worthless, so it's a huge tell the deal will proceed.
Re: China - capcom - 06-08-2022
We should have taken it one step further and had the subs nuclear armed.
Re: China - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-08-2022
(06-08-2022, 01:51 AM)Mav link Wrote:It is a relief to see the Fed Govt using diplomacy to thwart Chinese influence. Yes, I know the LNP also used diplomacy: megaphone diplomacy. But maybe building alliances rather than assuming them has some merit.What's so clear...? They continue to buy off Pacific island nations especially the ones with deep harbours for their warships, they continue to intimidate our aircraft and other western allies aircraft ie Canada, continue to taunt Taiwan and are building a large Naval facility in Cambodia.
It is clear Australia’s voice is being heard in the region – and that’s in no small part due to Penny Wong, The Guardian.
You can either stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not happening, do what the English and French did when Hitler marched into the Sudeten land and that was roll over and sign the Munich agreement which meant you can have that land if you promise not to go any further and start a war anywhere else..pretty please Adolf, or you can grow some gonads and stand up to the Chinese arrogance now and show them we won't be intimidated.
I fear it will be choice No 2 where Taiwan will be the new Sudeten land because everyone is running scared of the Chinese muscle and the USA will back off to the Philippines and let China dominate the rest of the Pacific.
Re: China - Mav - 06-08-2022
Maybe we should declare war on China and invade it like the British and French should have done in 1939. Hope you’ll be amongst the first to enlist, EB.
Re: China - capcom - 06-08-2022
(06-08-2022, 04:15 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:I fear it will be choice No 2 where Taiwan will be the new Sudeten land because everyone is running scared of the Chinese muscle and the USA will back off to the Philippines and let China dominate the rest of the Pacific.
Neville Chamberlain EB. But the world sits idly by and waits.