(11-08-2021, 04:38 PM)Mantis link Wrote:LP. The point I am trying to make is that we the people have the rights of full disclosure. We have the rights to hear what happens in the real world including our country and state. News cane announced as a coincidence and people be told it is not proven fact that side effects are a result that contributes to serious health issues. Let us not paint over a potential issue like a lick of paint on a mould infested wall in a house to get a better sale result by hiding what might be a damp issue which could cause serious respiratory issues to a buyer. The media should be held accountable to present information to the people. The government should not hold them to ransom to keep their trap shut. We the people pay taxes, yes? These taxes pay politicians in some shape or form, yes? We elect people into power, yes? We do so so that they have a chance to voice what the people need and want in parliament, yes? They represent us, the people, yes? I might have agreement on one or two of these above.

Now more importantly, the government is doing what they feel is required by the best advice they find to protect the health and well-being of the people they represent, yes? They state this at state and federal levels, yes? So it is apparent that everything is working fine by the greater community. However if something should appear to be a slight concern to the health of the constituents that the government represent, should it be investigated? No, because it is a known side effect to a vaccine. Should at an absolute minimal level be looked at that with multiple vaccines available, that the age group, gender type, or any other reason be a reason to reconsider an alternative vaccine? No because they are trying to achieve the same result? To get more than 80% of the population fully vaccinated? Hang on a second and back the truck up. Now I am getting p1ssed off and excuse my very fluent French. Is the percentage of fully vaccinated people more important than what it may do if somehow a certain vaccine suits age groups better? No just take the jab as 40,000 people have been tested and these are the statistics. Wait a moment. We are nor operating in the real world. We are vaccinating millions of people in our state. The trend appears to vary from what initial test may have shown. Maybe we should offer an alternative and monitor those with any side effects and offer them our full support. No because the government is not responsible for side effects of any medical process.

Now, my blood pressure is rising. You political blood sucking leeches are really about to do my f@cking head in. I like many the people of Victoria have endured lockdowns. 5km for your place of residence as they state. I am sure as a dumb f@ck that is interperatated as stay home. Unless you meet 5 needs to do so. Out of this boundary distance. To buy food. Sure enough this old bastard needs to eat and I can buy food very close to my sh1t hole I live in. Medicine from a chemist. Fine, like vitamin pills or ventolin as there is nothing of interest there.  Kathy is a very hot young girl, with such a polite attitude that she could sell tampons and I would buy them just because she might get a commission for the sale. Back off guys I saw her first. I mean she is my daughters age and has such a nice personality that it is impossible to not buy more than you need just to talk to such a pleasant person.

Care giving. I really have no person who really cares for me and no person who needs my care. Then there is work. This is one I will come back to soon. I like many required a permit to work. Why? The reason was that it was 27km away from my sh1t hole (place of residence). Last but not least, to go to a doctor or be tested for the covid 19. I never see doctors because I haven’t had a sick day in almost 4 years and 6 months. 2 of those years during the peak of the virus. The virus that spreads at light speed as Dan Andrews claimed. It is contagious so please ignore that comment. So I followed all the rules, including that mask. The one that makes asthmatic people feel like they are suffocating. Hang on a second. That is me. Hey, I am someone in this story. So I have followed all rules and tried to do the 1.5m distancing everywhere I go for a long, long time.

Then it happened. I was told it was my choice. Jab or job. Get a jab or lose your job. Really? I have paid my taxes that pay those that I elected into power to RULE my life. Those that are there to represent my views, opinions and hear my voice. Like the old system of a shop steward of a company representing my union. The union I paid my hard earn dollars for. So why do I pay taxes? To have someone decided what is best for my life? To decide what will be best for my future? Have I not paid enough taxes in my life? Have I not paid for the wages of those I have elected? When will they finally listen to the constituents and remember that they represent the people. Be the voice of those that put them into power. Those that can vote another person to sit in their seat next time elections take place. I took the jab by the way, so don’t hate me as an anti anything or a conspiracy theorist. I need to eat. I need to live. So does my dog who I love to bits. He has been my rock over the last 8 months. More than family or friends. This whole issue is dividing family and friends. Dividing people that is causing turmoil and hate because people have different views. Separations in relationships. Hate between family members. Problems in the workplace. It is f@cked and don’t take my word for it.

Just look at it from perspective. You elected people into government. No crystal ball there to know what would happen. Would any other candidate have done better? Who knows. Just promise me one thing in life. Love those that matter. Stand by your opinion even if if might be wrong. Voice your opinion. Don’t be rude about it but don’t hesitate to be heard. I hear it is your given right. Just don’t get locked up in jail. I hear it isn’t a great place to sleep. On a personal note it isn’t, but I will always make you feel welcome.

Sorry but I can’t comment on the Pharma companies. Kickback theories will get me in trouble. Sorry LP.

(11-09-2021, 01:58 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Has the solution caused as many issues as the virus?  Difficult to quantify, but those who got their vaccine, and are currently in not a good way, will think so.

(11-09-2021, 02:11 AM)LP link Wrote:Statistically that is not hard to quantify at all, the detrimental effects of COVID are orders of magnitude worse than the detrimental effects of the vaccines.

We are just learning now of the impacts of vaccine denial and scaremongering, tragically exposed in the rising numbers of young pregnant women rolling up to hospital COVID infected, and suffering long term effects to themselves and their babies because they have been frightened out of vaccination by social media scaremongering bastards!

The effects are not asymmetric, the scaremongers and their adjutants might not be adversely affected but that doesn't mean others won't. It seems otherwise healthy pregnant women are potentially the most vulnerable group, because not only are they at greater risk due to decreased immune response during pregnancy, they are responding for two or more!

So people trying to convince me the effects of lockdown and mandates has a huge detrimental effect on their wellbeing are doomed to fail, they aren't even in the same category as those who genuinely need our attention, care and respect. I'll always from an opinion in favour and bias towards a young mum who has been negatively impacted by Instagram, Twitter, FB and other Doomscrolling activities ahead of some privileged adult male complaining about a tough life!

Like pregnant women there will be thousands of similar genuine health care cases that sit well ahead of every anti-lockdown protestor, Dan hater and mask denier!

(11-09-2021, 01:55 AM)LP link Wrote:[member=98]Mantis[/member]‍ I understand the stress the lockdowns and mandates have caused and I don't question those effects on individuals, they are what they are as [member=122]Mav[/member]‍ has pointed out. But it's clear to me from what you have written is that some of your concerns seem to far outweigh the risks, perhaps it is a miscalculation of the the risk of one action versus the risk of another action or even a miscalculation of the risk of inaction.

In the era of a pandemic, doing nothing is not safe, doing nothing kills more people than doing something, so those who have to make a decision have no choice, be they politicians or health officials. We can all debate what to do, what is good what is bad, what might have been better, but doing nothing is never an option!

(11-09-2021, 02:52 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:The NUM from our Emergency department out here disagrees with you.

(11-09-2021, 03:01 AM)LP link Wrote:No, I'd assert the numbers agree perfectly with the statistics.

"We" are not some local special case, the numbers are global and universally applicable, the statistics expose that truth about infections versus vaccines and it is unequivocal. The numbers are infinitely more accurate than any subjective opinion or first-hand experience, experience which by relative scale to the global statistic is almost irrelevant!

It's laughable that individual persons try to paint themselves, their circumstance or location as special or privileged in the perspective of global cases!

We are not lucky, we are not special, we are not different, the pandemic follows the same rules here that it follows in New Delhi, London, Chile, Zimbabwe or Cairo!

PS; There are plenty policing the statistics, it is the easiest thing to police, the first ledgers to appear in this global pandemic were independent 3rd party statistics, and the idea that the statistics lie or have been deliberately politically misrepresented when they fail to present a preferred narrative is if anything the real global conspiracy. The statistics are so damming for the anti-vax and anti-mask narrative, the deniers tried their very best to adulterate free and open voluntary databases.

(11-09-2021, 03:20 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Look, I and EB1, both have sources in Emergency departments seeing an increase in presentations of Myocarditis in an age group that ordinarily wouldnt see them.

I am not latching onto this as anything but a question mark.  You however, disimiss it far too easily by explaining it away.  All it means is that you are believing everything you are being told.  Thats fine.  It is after all how it works, but my question is, how can we believe all we are told, when we are not being told everything?

(11-09-2021, 02:52 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:The NUM from our Emergency department out here disagrees with you.

The statistics that are quoted, need to be truly accurate, but if it doesnt suit the stategy what incentive is there for everything to be released accurately?  Whom polices the policemen?

The answer:  Themselves.  They are a law unto themselves, accountability is not a strong suit, its finger pointing, deflection, and numbers on a chalkboard.

You are way too dismissive of voices of true dissent, and are too busy looking at the conspiracy theorists, and lumping everyone into one category.

(11-09-2021, 03:29 AM)Macca37 date Wrote:My wife is a chronic asthmatic. If she were to catch Covid, do you think she would feel happier if it were to have been caught from a true dissenter rather than a conspiracy theorist?