(11-07-2021, 01:43 PM)Mantis link Wrote:I just wonder when people understand the new public health and well-being act or pandemic management plan has a huge effect on how we will live in 2022. It has been passed in the lower house, and will be up for grabs in the upper house 16th to 18th of this month. The new PHW Act 2021. 100 plus pages. Please read every page. Ignore 80% full vaccinated population. 90% population. 95% population vaccinated. We have been sold a certain level of vaccinated population of Victorians giving us a chance to live with a virus that can’t be held to zero levels. Like the old influenzas of past, it can’t be removed from the planet of the earth because it evolves. It mutates to exist. We will open up he flood gates by Dan Andrews promises. It won’t happen properly. He will allow 80,000 people at the Boxing Day test on day one. He will allow Christmas to exist as normal as possible for all to experience. I fear what this Pandemic Management bill will see for us all in 2022. I fear the worst. Not for me. I am an old Kent that could drop off the earth tomorrow and feelI have lived a life of freedom and fun for many years. So many fun years that I feel blessed. $20,909 fines for not wearing a mask. $90,000 for forgetting to check in a shop with QR codes. 2 years jail time for either, both or worse? Dan forgot his mask once. He paid a $400 fine. He announced it for all to hear on TV. Where does this new bill help see us in the future? It ignores the judicial system because it is a pandemic management plan. It has a special panel to set your complaints to a group to complain to. A selected panel that the Premier of the state has selected as an independent group. How independent is that?

I am not a pro Liberal party Victorian. I just need to hear and see what is real. Not the hidden fact that more than 13 teenagers have been diagnosed with Myocarditis after a vaccine in South Australia. Hard to see this as a once in a million case by studies. Not to forget those above that age that add to these statistics. I am not an anti-vaxer. I have been jabbed or I would have lost my job. My daughter which I love with all my heart tells me the figures stated in the media are not what she can see in her every day life at work. She is a nurse at the biggest hospital in Victoria. We are all fecked. Dan Andrews has screwed us all. The media tells us very little. If I have said something that states I can’t contribute to this site again, then I will say good bye and thanks for having me here. We are in big trouble next year and you heard first femme here.

(11-08-2021, 12:33 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Whats weirder is people on a forum ignoring what is possibly true and the fact that there is rather draconian measures put in place that are both harmful and dangerous.

Mantis has had very little to say on his subject and has raised some very real and serious concerns.  The myocarditis is possibly real.

Regarding the icus coping very well, the place I work at just re-opened 14 beds today that they had closed for staffing issues.  Thats out of a total of less than 70 across 3 sites to staff it properly at one. One of the other sites has come back online today. 

(11-08-2021, 12:50 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:The Myocarditis issues Mantis raised are real, one Melb ER was clogged with vaccine side effect patients with imaginary and real symptons all wanting ECG's and Blood tests.

Quote:Vaccinated people spread the virus less overall because they are significantly less likely to get infected in the first place. In early September, the CDC found that six unvaccinated people were testing COVID-positive for every one vaccinated person. But there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic beyond that. Some recent research shows that even once they’ve been infected, the vaccinated are less likely to spread the coronavirus than the unvaccinated. “We’re back in this category of, Yeah, it can happen, but it seems to be a very rare event,” Ross Kedl, an immunology professor at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, told me.

He pointed me to two studies, neither of which has been peer-reviewed, to make his point. One shows that although transmission did occur among the vaccinated in Provincetown, those cases represent what Kedl calls a “very limited” proportion out of the total number of infections that occurred as part of that outbreak. In the other study, researchers in the United Kingdom found that the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines consistently reduced transmission downstream of breakthrough cases. Much of the original Delta concern was based on something called “viral load”—the amount of virus a person carries while infected. But the researchers concluded that viral load is just one of many factors correlated to transmission reduction. In other words, even if vaccinated and unvaccinated people have the same viral load, it may not necessarily mean they are just as likely to spread the virus.

One reason for this may be that vaccinated people carry less infectious virus particles, as (not-yet-peer-reviewed) research from the Netherlands has recently illustrated. Although it’s widely assumed that virus particles carried by the vaccinated and unvaccinated are the same, basic principles of immunology actually predict otherwise, Kedl told me. Virus particles expelled by a vaccinated person are thought to be coated in antibodies—some of which are produced in the nose and mouth and are considered part of “mucosal” immunity—so “we can expect less of a downstream transmission,” he said.

Other researchers have come to similar conclusions. “The data are very clear that vaccinated individuals are less likely to spread the virus to others than unvaccinated individuals,” Christopher Byron Brooke, an assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, told me in an email. A recent paper Brooke co-wrote showed that vaccinated people shed less virus, stop shedding virus sooner than the unvaccinated, and shed particles that are less infectious—supporting the notion that they’re less likely to transmit disease. One study from the Netherlands found a 63 percent reduction in household transmission among the vaccinated. That’s a testament to our vaccines: Homes are a “setting where the deck is heavily stacked towards transmission since members of a household are in extremely close contact for long stretches of time,” Brooke said. (However, another recent study didn’t find a statistically significant difference in household transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.) Ultimately, Brooke said, you can certainly say the transmission risk for vaccinated people is lower, “but I don’t really know how you define ‘low.’”