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+--- Thread: The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet (/thread-4788.html)
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 01:38 AM)LP link Wrote:Not at all, a Hard Ball get is a measure of an individual, for a HTA to become a stat it depends on the actions of multiple players.By your 'logic' (and i use that term loosely, a hard ball get isn't a genuine stat because the opposition has a say in it as well....you might be up against Jack Watts or some other 'soft' player. Or in this instance a hitout isn't a true hitout because they were getting them against no-name rucks....
After the Tap and the next possession comes the assessment of a HTA, so by it's very nature HTA depends on all the players around the stoppage;
- The ruck winning the tap
- Hitting the tap in the right direction and correct distance.
- Any midfielder moving to the right place / direction.
- Any midfielder being in the right place at the right moment.
- Any midfielder being in front at the right moment.
- Any opposition being caught behind.
- Any opposition not guessing the right direction.
- Any opposition not blocking our midfield.
HO are a pure ruck stat, a measure of a ruck winning a contest against a direct opponent, and as a stat it is not dependant on the actions of other players.
HTA is it not the same way a kick to advantage is measured etc
But nobody rates the amount of kicks a player gets higher than their kicks to advantage equivalent - disposal efficiency.
What you are saying is that you'd rather a player get 50 kicks, even if he only hits a target with 5 of them, rather than the same player get 20 kicks and finding a player with 10 of them.
If you arguing that a hitout is more important as it is dependent on the midfield helps you sleep at night, then thats on you.
Ignoring all that nonsense, and playing the game on YOUR (biased) terms, you have never legitimately had an answer to the relative nature of the stat.
That is you fail to address the previous statements about how it depends on the midfield, specifically the '2nd rate' midfield and that explains the TDK difference.
If that rang true, which spoiler alert - its nonsense, then why didn't that same gun midfield turn Young into a superstar ruck by getting him more hitouts to advantage? I'm sure you will try and trot out some other nonsense theory, but Occams razor should tell you that perhaps its nothing more than what i've been saying all along. Pittonet = good. Others = less good.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - Lods - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 05:54 AM)kruddler link Wrote:What you are saying is that you'd rather a player get 50 kicks, even if he only hits a target with 5 of them,
Keep Acres out of this discussion.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 06:10 AM)Lods link Wrote:Keep Acres out of this discussion.I didn't want to use examples, but i'd lie if i said he didn't jump into my head while typing.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - LP - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 05:54 AM)kruddler date Wrote:By your 'logic' (and i use that term loosely, a hard ball get isn't a genuine stat because the opposition has a say in it as well....you might be up against Jack Watts or some other 'soft' player.Not at all, that's still a one on one contest like a hitout.
(07-03-2023, 05:54 AM)kruddler date Wrote:Or in this instance a hitout isn't a true hitout because they were getting them against no-name rucks....I'm not going to blame Meek and Reeves for being ruck dominant in a losing Midfield, and that very circumstance highlighted by our team being down in winning ruck contests but dominant in clearances is the very issue that highlights the folly of rucks like Young and SoJ. The reason the Dawks lost the clearances isn't because of the tap, it's because of what came after.
It's bizarre some will claim a weaker ruck is somehow a consistent mechanism for a better outcome, it's just crazy thinking, it exposes just how limited some people think the ruck role really is.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-03-2023
I like how you selectively edited out all the parts you don't have an answer for.
That is why Young was unable to get more than 1 hitout to advantage in such a dominant midfield.
Puts a giant ruck sized hole in all your conspiracies about how the ruck actually works.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - LP - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 10:07 PM)kruddler date Wrote:I like how you selectively edited out all the parts you don't have an answer for.I don't feel I need to respond to things that are obviously either wrong, trivial, out of context, rock throwing or otherwise spurious.
And within the context of your inferences, the problem isn't the stat and never was the stat, the problem is that any stat that is so open to arbitrary interpretation like HtA is next to useless, pretty much any meaning can be asserted from a chosen or preferred perspective. For example, claiming that Young and SoJ being flogged by opposition rucks is somehow a better outcome than having a competitive or winning duo like Pitto and TDK!
A flogging is a flogging, no matter what arbitrary numbers you want to give to it!
The glitter of HtA is not gold, it's fools gold!
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - madbluboy - 07-04-2023
If English taps the ball directly to Bailey Smith but the bigger Cripps bodies him out of the way and takes possession that would be Cripps who changed the status of that hit out.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - madbluboy - 07-04-2023
I try not to focus too much on the ruckwork because I think they need to do more than that. Our midfield would set up different depending who is rucking for us and who is rucking for them.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - madbluboy - 07-04-2023
My only issue with Silvagni rucking is often he is monstered and he is too slow to be that extra midfielder.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - Lods - 07-04-2023
(07-04-2023, 12:36 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:My only issue with Silvagni rucking is often he is monstered and he is too slow to be that extra midfielder.
My problem with him rucking is it wears him down over time.
He was shattered by the end of last season....and took some time to get going this year.
On the weekend he had a spring in his jump and looked fresh.
I'm not sure about his pace...we consider him to be slow, but one of the footy shows last night showed him gut running a long distance and running away from his Hawthorn opponent at the end.
I suspect if there's an issue with his pace it's more to do with initial reaction and acceleration over the first 5-10 metres.