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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-12-2021

I’m glad to see there’s support for minority vetoes over laws passed by democratically-elected governments and legislatures. But it shouldn’t be just a right-wing veto. For instance, union-busting legislation should be ignored. By all means, allow courts to issue orders pursuant to those laws but those orders shouldn’t be enforced at all. Everyone should treat them as if they were just opinion letters published in newspapers and the police should just refuse to enforce them. Fair’s fair, after all.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 10-12-2021

(10-11-2021, 11:40 PM)LP link Wrote:[member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍ acting a bit like Murdoch and misrepresenting a circumstance doesn't make a perspective right.

The officers own union issued a public statement hope that she gets the help she requires, with a message that concluded with contact details for mental health lines, I suppose not all the officer's duress is applied from one side of the debate, which seems a reasonable position given the area she specifically worked in!

Everyone has agendas.

The ABC labelled some youtube streamer called the real Ruskan Fake News! This dude just walks around filming protests live unedited, he barely speaks lol.

How is that fake?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 10-12-2021

(10-11-2021, 11:20 PM)Mav link Wrote:I'm happy to amend that, MBB. Hopefully EB can explain how the police enforcing a vaccine mandate (which is restricted at this stage to policing aggressive protests and might in future entail attending premises where unvaccinated people react aggressively to being denied entry) would be heavy handed. Should police refuse to enforce the law (as some Sheriffs do in the US)? Let's assume the Victorian Supreme Court rejects attempts to invalidate the mandate. Would it then be okay for the police to intervene if violence or criminal damage is threatened or occurring?

I'm fine with law and order applied across the board.

Violent protesters- arrest.
Peaceful protesters- let them go.

There was one protest a while ago that the police told them to move on. The group all moved on their separate ways to their train lines but the cops followed one group and attacked them, unprovoked.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-12-2021

I'd also be happy to let peaceful protesters go (save I'd draw a line at neo-nazis marching thru the streets with Tiki torches yelling anti-semitic slogans). But while I don't condone police use of excessive force, exposing a wider segment of the community to it means it's not so easy for it to be ignored.  It was probably a bit of an eye-opener for EB, for instance.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 10-12-2021

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria-s-outbreak-response-a-template-for-what-not-to-do-20211012-p58z5n.html

Crisis reveals character and can lead to political revolutions. The Long Depression of the late 1800s sent shockwaves around the globe and, in The Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt credits it with giving birth to the New Imperialism that drove the dire scramble for Africa.

The depression hit Australia hard in the 1890s fomenting a brutal confrontation between employers and trade unions that gave birth to the Australian Labor Party.

In the run-up to Federation, the division that animated politics in Australia’s colonies was the split between the Free Traders, who held sway in NSW, and the Protectionists, who dominated Victoria. The power of labour lay not in colonial parliaments but in its unions.

The battle between bosses and workers exploded in June 1890 when a wrenching maritime strike began with wharfies refusing to handle wool that had been shorn by non-union labour.

A 13-year-old Jack Lang witnessed a clash outside his home on Sydney’s Liverpool Street, as workers tipped wool bales off wagons bound for the port. In I Remember, the future Labor premier recounts that a delegation of employers implored acting Premier Sir William McMillan to issue arms to the troops and put down what they called “an insurrection”. McMillan agreed but an appalled Sir Henry Parkes left his sickbed to countermand the order, reprimanding McMillan whose political career never recovered.

Attitudes were different in Victoria. There, Cabinet ordered the troops to arms and “the city [was] placarded with the Unlawful Assemblies Act”.

On the evening of August 30, ahead of a trade union rally the next day, the commanding officer of the Victorian Mounted Rifles, Lieutenant Colonel Tom Price, addressed his men in a speech that that would ricochet around the nation.

“Let there be no half measures,” the colonel said. “You will each be supplied with forty rounds of ammunition and leaden bullets, and if the order is given to fire don’t let me see one rifle pointed up in the air. Fire low and lay them out ...lay the disturbers of law and order out so that the duty will not again have to be performed. Let it be a lesson to them.”

The protest was peaceful and the Victorian Premier, of course, disavowed the sentiment uttered by the offending officer he had ordered on to the streets.

Much has changed in 131 years and much appears to be much the same. Responding to the same crisis, NSW and Victoria have cut different paths. In the eyes of the neo-protectionist “progressives”, the great crime of former premier Gladys Berejiklian was to have a “mockdown”; that is to err on the side of leaving her people free for as long as possible.

Happily we got to witness a real-time, real-world example of the many benefits of a proper lockdown in a demographically identical jurisdiction. Its world-leading exponent, Victorian Premier Dan Andrews, rolled off the bench to fire low and lay the disease out.

And the evidence is in. When the lockdowns are lined up from day zero NSW did significantly better than Victoria on every day in both suppressing the disease and in lifting the vaccination rate. There has also been less civil disorder.

It turns out that when you reflexively imprison people they get sick of it. Some take to the streets in protest and, clearly, a great many others just silently disobey the absurd demands of their overlords. When the dust settles on this pandemic and the world assesses how to deal with a future crisis Victoria will be used as a template of what not to do.

Through Berejiklian and now Dominic Perrottet, NSW is beating the trail for Australia because no matter what the COVID-free states might believe, they are behind, not ahead, on the path out. One day, they will have to exit by the same door. Their great advantage is time, and they are squandering it by not forcing the pace of vaccination.

Soon a royal commission should be called into the COVID-19 responses of all Australian governments, with the sole aim of learning from our successes and mistakes.

That is what Parkes did in an effort to trace the causes of the strikes. It led to the establishment of the first machinery of conciliation and arbitration. Lang recalled that Parkes was invited to address a trade union conference where he offered some telling advice.

“Instead of breaking the law, why don’t you send your own members into Parliament and make the laws so that there will be no need to break them,” Parkes said.

The first branch of what would become the Australian Labor Party was formed in Balmain and 52 candidates were selected to contest the 1891 NSW election. Just months later, in their first electoral battle, the nascent party won 35 seats.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 12:47 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:How is that fake?
I suppose it depends if what he all that he films is real or artificially orchestrated.

I believe it was alleged or exposed that he or someone connected to him was actually facilitating some events, creating their own news as it were, which is a tad ironic!

I suppose, everyone has agendas, are all agendas equal?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 01:51 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:Through Berejiklian and now Dominic Perrottet, NSW is beating the trail for Australia because no matter what the COVID-free states might believe, they are behind, not ahead, on the path out. One day, they will have to exit by the same door. Their great advantage is time, and they are squandering it by not forcing the pace of vaccination.
I'm not sure, and I'm not omnipotent, but that last sentence seems to be a direct contradiction of the articles general conclusion.

I would have thought compulsory vaccination is effectively forcing the pace of vaccination, and it looks to be working! :o

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-12-2021

Interesting thoughts on Chris Uhlmann in Crikey.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 02:01 AM)Mav date Wrote:Interesting thoughts on Chris Uhlmann in Crikey.
Regardless of his political of social bent, when publishing an article it pays to be referentially self-consistent.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 10-12-2021

(10-12-2021, 01:54 AM)LP link Wrote:I suppose it depends if what he all that he films is real or artificially orchestrated.

I believe it was alleged or exposed that he or someone connected to him was actually facilitating some events, creating their own news as it were, which is a tad ironic!

I suppose, everyone has agendas, are all agendas equal?

I watched him live on youtube for about 10 minutes one morning (There was hardly anyone there) and he was just walking around. He was asked about 5 times for his press ID in the short time I viewed. The police handcuffed and arrested a young asian woman who couldn't or wouldn't tell them why she was out. The police let some other guys (who actually looked like protestors) go after their ID checked out and they were told to put their masks on.

The footage was unedited.