Carlton Supporters Club
The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Printable Version

+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Social Club (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Blah-Blah Bar (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread (/thread-4986.html)



Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-22-2023

All the Indonesian mines have to do is promise that they’ll bury the pollutants in the ground or convert them into chemicals which can be used by industry in unlimited quantities and the problem goes away, no? It doesn’t matter if they can do as promised. Once everything is rolling along, regulators and governments will be pressured to fudge the data so the magic happens.


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - LP - 02-22-2023

(02-22-2023, 06:12 AM)Mav date Wrote:All the Indonesian mines have to do is promise that they’ll bury the pollutants in the ground or convert them into chemicals which can be used by industry in unlimited quantities and the problem goes away, no?
Yes, bury them for now, it is a bit like all that recycling of lithium batteries, wind turbine blades and SolarPV, .................. eventually after we dig them up! :Smile



Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-22-2023

Republicans in the US ‘Battery Belt’ Embrace Biden’s Climate Spending, The Guardian.

Good luck to Republicans hoping to win back Georgia’s 2 Senate seats. Looks like the incumbents can claim credit for bringing home the bacon to their constituents.


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-22-2023

Another development which illustrates the folly of trying to use the current state of battery technology against EV cars.

Leclanché reports breakthrough in environmentally-friendly battery production, Electrive.com.

Quote: Swiss battery manufacturer Leclanché says it has made a breakthrough in the environmentally friendly production of modern G/NMCA cells. Leclanché is able to reduce the cobalt content in NMCA electrodes from 20 to five per cent in an environmentally friendly water-based process.

In the process, Leclanché completely eliminates the use of the highly toxic organic solvents (NMP, short for N-methylpyrrolidone) that are otherwise common in the production process. According to Leclanché, the new G/NMCA cells offer a 20 per cent higher energy density compared to conventional NMC cells – with the same size, weight and very good performance. The “G” stands for the graphite in the anode, NMCA for a cathode based on nickel-manganese-cobalt-aluminium oxide.

One thing is clear: NMCA cathodes based on water-based binders are easier to dispose of and recyclable. The newly developed G/NMCA cell is said to have a nickel content of around 90 per cent, which increases the energy density and allows the cobalt content to be significantly reduced by 15 per cent. At the same time, according to the company, it offers a longer service life, high cycle stability and good chargeability.

Thanks to the high volume density and high cycle stability, the new cells are said to be particularly well suited for “electric cars as well as heavy-duty applications such as ships, buses and trucks” . Leclanché’s new G/NMCA cells are expected to be available on the market in 2024.

Company representatives also emphasise in the release, however, that the real breakthrough lies in the production that is now possible. “With the water-based production of the high-capacity NMCA cathodes, we have reached a decisive milestone in lithium-ion technology,” says Hilmi Buqa, Vice President R&D at Leclanché. “Until now, producing them using environmentally friendly processes was considered impossible. But, now we have mastered the process.”

Leclanché has been using aqueous binders in its battery production for many years. Among other things, because the previous production processes based on these binders did not allow for such high energy densities as were required for automotive use, Leclanché batteries have so far mainly been used in commercial vehicles and in the shipping industry for hybrid ferries or electric ships.

By the way, with the water-based process, Leclanché can already dispense with energy-intensive processes for drying, flashing off and recycling the solvents. Energy consumption is therefore said to be ten to 30 per cent lower.

It’s encouraging that this announcement comes from a company that is already producing batteries for commercial vehicles and ships and this gives some credibility to the claim that the new batteries will be released in 2024.

This won’t be the last improvement to the production process. But it underscores that criticisms of the current technology and production processes might be buried more quickly than CCS can bury carbon dioxide.



Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - LP - 02-23-2023

It's a bit early to call these advances solutions, while I'm all for the science and the technology, the modern trend to crow early is a bit disturbing.

They crow early because they need funding, this stuff costs big dollars, and like the COVID vaccines they can't be funded by private investment, it has to be government funding of some sort. So the sell, sell, sell the developments, even if it's only still lab scale.

But everyone knows this, even the Hydrogen naysayers in the battery industry use this repeated trend to talk down hydrogen by labelling it as a "new technology", that is despite much of the hydrogen economy R&D being older than Wind, SolarPV, LIoN or even Modern EVs!


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-23-2023

Or maybe it’s like the blue hydrogen industry claiming CCS and catalysis are solutions to the problematic emissions and byproducts. A bit too early for that, no?


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - PaulP - 02-23-2023

I don't believe technology, whether old or new, will help much in dealing with the climate crisis. It is precisely our unchecked technological wizardry that got us into this mess in the first place. Trying to come with new technologies to solve the problems created by older technologies might make some minor improvements, and that's about it IMO.


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-23-2023

I agree there’s a risk that science will be used as a fig leaf for continued pollution. It’s a bit like the tobacco industry introducing filters and menthol (or getting behind vapes) to suggest they’re making tobacco safer to use. I wouldn’t want the fossil fuel industry to use CCS and other means to justify doing business as usual.

On the other hand, there have been some scientific advances or interventions that did help to make things safer. Banning CFCs has helped to replenish the ozone layer and introducing unleaded petrol has reduced the developmental damage inflicted by lead.

But the scientific consensus appears to be that even eliminating emissions totally wouldn’t allow us to stop the rise in global temperatures (and unless science can offer alternatives, that’s not going to happen). We need to eliminate carbon dioxide that’s already in the atmosphere and only science can make that happen. There are currently DAC (Direct Air Capture) projects that are trying to scale up those efforts: see this for example.


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - PaulP - 02-23-2023

(02-23-2023, 01:49 AM)Mav link Wrote:I agree there’s a risk that science will be used as a fig leaf for continued pollution. It’s a bit like the tobacco industry introducing filters and menthol (or getting behind vapes) to suggest they’re making tobacco safer to use. I wouldn’t want the fossil fuel industry to use CCS and other means to justify doing business as usual.

On the other hand, there have been some scientific advances or interventions that did help to make things safer. Banning CFCs has helped to replenish the ozone layer and introducing unleaded petrol has reduced the developmental damage inflicted by lead.

But the scientific consensus appears to be that even eliminating emissions totally wouldn’t allow us to stop the rise in global temperatures (and unless science can offer alternatives, that’s not going to happen). We need to eliminate carbon dioxide that’s already in the atmosphere and only science can make that happen. There are currently DAC (Direct Air Capture) projects that are trying to scale up those efforts: see this for example.


Science and technology are both morally neutral enterprises that serve centres of power. Scientists aren't pure either.

I guess the point I was making is that the fundamentally unsustainable lifestyle of those in the developed world in not really tied to technological choice. Whilst it makes some difference, I'm not sure that solar panels on the roof or everybody driving EV's will help all that much. All the alternatives to traditional energy sources have their own problems, and environmental issues that need to be sorted out. I would argue the climate and environmental issues are locked right into the very fabric and essence of the way we live.


Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Mav - 02-23-2023

But unless the clickers or zombies take over, or some other apocalyptic event happens, that’s not going to change. Let’s hope science can help us avoid disaster.