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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-02-2021

I noted a while back that pharmaceutical companies were racing to produce oral antiviral medication for Covid, but it appears Merck is just about to win the race:
How Merck's antiviral pill could change the game for Covid-19, National Geographic.
Merck pill could cut COVID risk in half but won't be a 'miracle' cure for coronavirus, scientists say, abc.net.au.

Merck's trial was stopped early because it was so successful (ethical rules say you can't continue a trial with a group unprotected by placebos when it's clear a drug is effective). There were 8 deaths in the placebo group and none in the medicated group. in the placebo group, 14.1% were hospitalised within the 29 days of the study while the medicatation halved that rate in those taking the medication. Considering that those in both groups were high risk and were all shown by testing to be be Covid-positive (including with Delta and Mu variants) before the trial began, that's not bad. Merck is now applying for emergency use authorisations in the US and around the world.

The benefit of this drug is that it comes in a course of tablets: 4 pills twice a day for 4 days. There is currently no oral antiviral medication for Covid. Patients can be treated at home and that would free up beds in hospitals.. On the other hand, monoclonal antibodies, whilst effective, are administered intravenously and that obviously needs to be done by medical staff. 

Of course, it'll earn Merck a pretty packet. The US Govt has already bought courses at US$700 a pop. But the Federal Govt would no doubt put it on the PBS scheme which would reduce its cost to patients and providing it free would be cost-effective when you look at the cost of hospitalising someone for a month or so. Presumably, it might only be available to those who were enrolled in the trial, in other words those who have at least 1 risk factor including being over 60, obese, immunocompromised from other conditions or having underlying heart or pulmonary disease, among others. But I can just imagine the flipside of the argument that the over-60s made that they shouldn't be shut out of Pfizer just because they're over 60: 59 year olds will argue there's no basis for shutting them out if someone just a year older is eligible.   

Apparently, monoclonal antibodies are more effective still (85% effective in reducing hospitalisation and death) but cost 3 times more. Does Medicare provide these currently? Can the oral medications be a first line of defence and then monoclonal antibodies might be provided if they fail? 

In any event, it would be great if this drug is available to treat patients before the hospitals are overrun.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Lods - 10-02-2021

(10-01-2021, 02:00 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:No jab No work. All sectors.

I'd expect the majority of AFL players won't have an issue with this.
I'm just curious though....the AFL would have to make it a mandatory requirement as well.
Otherwise we have the situation where Victorian based players are impacted, yet it's not necessarily a requirement for interstate players.
I haven't seen anything, but has the AFL already moved towards vaccination being compulsory.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-02-2021

(10-02-2021, 02:29 AM)Mav date Wrote:Of course, it'll earn Merck a pretty packet. The US Govt has already bought courses at US$700 a pop. But the Federal Govt would no doubt put it on the PBS scheme which would reduce its cost to patients and providing it free would be cost-effective when you look at the cost of hospitalising someone for a month or so.
The government should make it free, it's an order of magnitude cheaper than a hospital visit, if they make it too expensive or even moderately expensive there will be very vulnerable people who delay and then need to be hospitalised destroying the benefit and the savings.

Like the intravenous treatments, it's most effective administered early, so ideally you do not want people waiting until they are sick. If someone is positive have it ready to administer. There is talk of allowing doctors clinics to administer the intravenous treatments or even have RNs doing it in homes.

Merck might have won the race to be first, but GSK and others won't stop, the prize is too high, and the variants will keep coming.

I've also read recently an auto-injector version being tested, works like diabetic or Epi pens, should be easy to use.

This is very exciting, we need this to work and quickly.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-02-2021

A brother of a friend, 65yo still fit lean healthy tradie working in and around Melbourne. Had previously had one AZ vaccine shot a couple of weeks before getting the sniffles, thought they were a vaccine side-effect, but got worse after a couple of days so got tested, .......... positive!

Isolated at home, said he had no major problems, felt a bit unwell like having the lurgy, was talking to friends and family on the phone who suggested he should go back to his doctor as he sounded unwell.

Promised them he'd get a nights rest and go tomorrow.

Tomorrow never come around!

Barely a week after testing positive and he was gone!

No blood clots, no stroke, no cancer, no underlying major disease found by the coroner, as he was found passed at home by his son it had to be fully investigated, just COVID, nothing more and nothing less.

You do not have to be unwell or have some other illness.
You do not need to have some co-morbidity.
You do not need to be overweight.
You do not need to be frail.

All you have to do is get it!

Don't feck around, get vaccinated, if your ill get help, don't take the risk, and don't delay!

The only thing you know is that you don't know, so do as the ads say, if you have a cough or runny nose, fever, sore throat, whatever cold or flu like symptoms no matter how mild, get tested, it's free, it's fast, and it could save your life!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-03-2021

Wise words LP and condolences to your friend.

Unfortunately, your friend’s brother did have 1 factor that put him in a susceptible category: his age. We don’t think of our immune systems deteriorating with age as we we can’t measure it or assess it ourselves, unlike our hair, skin and sporting performance. But a fully-vaccinated 80 year old only has the resistance to Covid of an unvaccinated 50 year old (and nowhere near the resistance of a fully vaccinated 50 year old). I don’t know what the comparison would be for a fully vaccinated 65 year old, but the vaccine will only partially reverse the ravages of time.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Lods - 10-03-2021

(10-03-2021, 12:33 AM)Mav link Wrote:Wise words LP and condolences to your friend.

Unfortunately, your friend’s brother did have 1 factor that put him in a susceptible category: his age. We don’t think of our immune systems deteriorating with age as we we can’t measure it or assess it ourselves, unlike our hair, skin and sporting performance. But a fully-vaccinated 80 year old only has the resistance to Covid of an unvaccinated 50 year old (and nowhere near the resistance of a fully vaccinated 50 year old). I don’t know what the comparison would be for a fully vaccinated 65 year old, but the vaccine will only partially reverse the ravages of time.

I'm 67.
Double vaccinated but with kidney and heart issues.
I've just recovered from a respiratory illness which included a severe cough that lasted two months.
I had 4 tests over that time just to keep making sure what I was experiencing wasn't Covid, but if Covid is worse than that (and I'm sure it is) I don't think being double vaccinated will make a huge difference.

But I'm quite happy to do it for others.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 10-03-2021

(10-03-2021, 02:07 AM)Lods date Wrote:I'm 67.
Double vaccinated but with kidney and heart issues.

But I'm quite happy to do it for others.
It's also a factor of age that the efficacy of the vaccines diminish quicker, so once/if they start offering boosters you should not hesitate to check with your doctor and get it if you are eligible.

Glad to hear your vigilant, my mates brother made the primary error of disregarding the initial sniffles and it cost him his life! I suppose part of the problem is people do not want to believe they might have it, when the reality is more than likely we'll all get it at some stage, and the earlier you are diagnosed and treated the better.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-03-2021

Yep, we have to operate on the assumption that every one of us will at least be exposed to Covid at some point. The trick is to put it off as long as possible so effective treatments are available when the bell tolls for us. Double vaccination may well be enough to help you survive even if there’s no guarantee, but if it slows down Covid’s progression so that you have time to take these new oral antivirals then it will have done its job.

Imagine being in that first wave of cases when the doctors had no idea how to treat Covid patients ...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 10-03-2021

Apparently international cricketers and tennis players are except from the no jab no work mandate.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 10-03-2021

Novak has caught Covid so many times he must be immune by now ...