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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne (/thread-6427.html)
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - madbluboy - 03-20-2024
Zac Fisher actually had 9 from 21 disposals.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - LP - 03-20-2024
It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.
On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - madbluboy - 03-20-2024
(03-20-2024, 10:34 AM)pinot link Wrote:We have been good at scoring from turnover of late - how much are we going to score off Fisher's own boot?
David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - LP - 03-21-2024
(03-20-2024, 10:28 PM)madbluboy date Wrote:David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.I think this is mostly due to stability in the playing and coaching group.
The focus on training specific tactics, or developing new tactics, isn't anything special, you just have to be around long enough for it to happen. On the flipside, stay around too long and the innovation can stall.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - DJC - 03-21-2024
(03-20-2024, 09:33 PM)LP link Wrote:It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.
On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.
Actually, Fantasia's numbers aren't "shocking" if you look at the play and not just the statistics.
As David King has highlighted, we are using chains of handballs in different scenarios; forward handballs when there's an opportunity to run, lateral handballs to find a free player, etc. You will have also noticed handballs backwards over the player's shoulder. Fantasia has been playing deep in defence and he has taken possession with no likelihood of going forward apart from a dump kick. In that situation, he has handballed over his shoulder (as have several of his teammates so it's probably something they practice. The ball may reach a teammate but, more often than not, there's disputed possession and a ball up. That is counted as an ineffective disposal because it didn't reach the intended target, even though there may never have been an intended target. Handballing over the shoulder, perhaps to a voice, is a higher percentage play, in that situation, than a kick or handball forward. We invariably have an outnumber behind the ball running the ball out of defence and can force a stoppage. We can then set up in the knowledge that we're more likely to win the clearance.
So, what goes down as an ineffective disposal is actually a rehearsed, higher percentage play than the other options available.
I think that it was Newman or Hollands who passed to Saad only to have Vlastuin leave his man and effect a spoil. It was a short kick and, as Saad didn't win possession, it's counted as an ineffective disposal. If it had been a long kick with the same outcome, it would go down as an effective disposal. In both cases, the kicker doesn't determine the outcome.
Cuningham and Fogarty have different roles to Fantasia so there's not really much point in comparing them. Owies and Fantasia have similar roles, and both have been off the pace in my view. Owies managed to hit the scoreboard against the Tigers but Fantasia's kicking for goal has been unreliable and that is usually one of his strongpoints. Fantasia has had more of the ball but Owies has never been high possession winner. Fantasia hasn't made the most of his possessions but, as outlined above, disposal efficiency isn't a terribly reliable statistic. Fantasia and Owies are neck and neck when it comes to clangers, Owies has more turnovers, Fantasia has more intercepts, and Owies has more tackles.
Is Owies' workrate worth 10X Fantasia's? No, if anything Fantasia's workrate is higher because he's the one getting back in defence as Owies was doing last season. Perhaps that's a fitness thing and Owies will improve as he gets games under his belt, Fantasia should improve too.
Owies' two goals may save him but, if Motlop is fit, Owies and Fantasia are the two players most likely to make way.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - WASurfer - 03-23-2024
Watched the North v Dockers game today. North were good early but you can see they're a relatively young side still. Turnovers and butchered the ball when they had Freo right under the pump early in the second quarter and then couldn't go on with it.
Apart from Larkey, they don't have any tall forwards and they don't really have any key defenders either. They've recruited a stack of talented midfielders over the last few seasons but no key position players that I can think of.
If we get plenty of the ball and use it well, Charlie and Harry should have a very Good Friday.
Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - DJC - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 06:50 AM)WASurfer link Wrote:Watched the North v Dockers game today. North were good early but you can see they're a relatively young side still. Turnovers and butchered the ball when they had Freo right under the pump early in the second quarter and then couldn't go on with it.
Apart from Larkey, they don't have any tall forwards and they don't really have any key defenders either. They've recruited a stack of talented midfielders over the last few seasons but no key position players that I can think of.
If we get plenty of the ball and use it well, Charlie and Harry should have a very Good Friday.
Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.
North played Larkey and Coleman-Jones as key forwards and back up rucks, and Corr, Pink and K Dawson as key defenders. None of them made much of an impression.
Larkey and Coleman-Jones will trouble Kemp with their considerable size advantage, and Larkey's ability. Freo went with two tall key defenders and we should do the same.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - pinot - 03-23-2024
North were good against an average team that was almost at full strength.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - RiverRat - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 06:50 AM)WASurfer link Wrote:Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.Still fails to chase back with anything like the acceleration he uses when he has the ball - won't be missed by me.
Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne - DJC - 03-23-2024
Fish sorted out his disposal issues this week … or Freo didn’t force him onto his weak side.
It will be interesting to see how he goes against us.