(01-30-2024, 07:02 AM)DJC link Wrote:There's not going to be an instantaneous swap over from ICE to EV and the infrastructure could very well keep pace with demand.  It's likely that motels and other accommodation will offer overnight charging (which is better for battery life) if the demand is there.

Meanwhile, there are only about a dozen hydrogen refuelling stations across the nation.  That includes the one owned by Toyota in Melbourne, and that can only produce enough hydrogen about a dozen cars each day.  Swinburne and CSIRO have just built a $2.5M plant but our Governments are only spending $160M on hydrogen refuelling as opposed to $500M for EV charging infrastructure.  I guess that reflects current demand rather than future needs.

Toyota's Andrew Willis says a lack of refuelling infrastructure is holding up wider adoption of HICE vehicles (I just made that acronym up); "It's growing, but it's still limited. We can't introduce a car to market that you can't refuel. Refuelling is one of the key barriers to the growth in the [sales/leasing] volumes."

Toyota's refuelling station separates hydrogen from oxygen in water by electrolysis using its own solar generated electricity and electricity from the grid.  The hydrogen is stored as a gas at sub-zero temperatures and cars are refuelled with a nozzle similar to that used for LPG vehicles.  I'm not across the technology or the costs but I assume that it would be feasible to have similar but larger scale refuelling stations if not at every servo, then at all of those with the capacity to generate renewable electricity. Cheaper electricity is required to reduce the cost of hydrogen to an affordable amount.

Of the fleet of 52 zero-emission buses Victoria is trialling, two are powered by hydrogen fuel cells.  However, the hydrogen is "grey" as it is produced by burning natural gas rather than electricity from renewable sources.  Of course, brown coal and natural gas is still used to provide some of the electricity that's charging the EV buses.

(01-30-2024, 03:21 AM)kruddler link Wrote:OK, let me put it this way.

Go on a road trip. Go stop at one of those petrol stations on the highway that has a maccas and what not. Go look at how long those lines are for getting fuel. Work out how long it currently takes people to pull up, fuel up, and get moving. Say 5mins?

Now, if everyone driving a petrol/diesel car switches to BEVs, assuming they get the same distances as petrol/diesel by then. How long will it take them to get to 50%, 80% 100%? How long will all those backed up cars behind them have to wait now? If each station has a 30min charge time and even if that charge station has double the capacity of existing stations, peoples charge/wait time would balloon out while they are waiting for their spot....and obviously more time charging.
Stops would take say 6 times longer.....IF you could get a spot to begin with. If you are at capacity, you could be waiting hours to get a charging spot. This is what will happen with increasing takeup of BEVs. Not too mention the population and general traffic users will also continue to increase compounding the problem.

Currently there are not that many charging stations and not that many cars. However, if everybody who uses an ICE car now changed to BEV, the infastructure will need to increase to greater what it is now in these areas to get the same result. (wait times).

OR....
You go Hyrdrogen and none of the above is a problem.

(01-30-2024, 10:26 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

(01-31-2024, 02:06 AM)kruddler link Wrote:As the article said, its hard to make sense of those figures without more data, but there is a couple things seem to be at play.

People selling used EVs are taking longer to sell, and they are averaging a lot less value compared to the others. This to me suggests that these ones for sale are put up at an overinflated price, which is why they are not selling. They eventually have to drop the price to below what they'd expect, just to cut their losses. Which makes sense with the data as a possible reason.

However, it also states there is very limited data (thus supply) of used EVs on the market. That SHOULD mean that a lack of supply yields an increased in demand and thus drives prices up....not down.

Ultimately, the only scenario that makes sense is that people simply do not want used EVs. You which would think that it would have to be at least in part due to their 'scrap value' after 10 years when the battery life is suggested to be next to useless.
The people who can afford new cars don't keep cars until they die, they just churn them over and upgrade to the newer models every 2-3-4 years.
The people who can't afford new cars, want something that they can rely on for the long term. It appears EVs are not that and people are voted with their wallet.

(01-31-2024, 07:13 AM)LP link Wrote:For most Tesla buyers it's the hope of one day being chauffeured around, it has little to do with the environment, the environment is just an excuse!