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+--- Thread: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 (/thread-6045.html)
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - DJC - 09-03-2023
(09-03-2023, 09:26 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Not the point. We've had a yearly departure of our better players because they don't want to be there.
Why?
Our better players?
Why do we still have Kez, Darcy, Bre, Abbie, Mua, Gab, Mimi, Jess, etc, and why do we continue to attract quality players.
We’ve been screwed by the AFL’s haste to get the expansion clubs up to strength and the lure of $$$ thrown around by other clubs.
It would be interesting to see the results of a full on salary cap audit … but that’s not in the AFL’s interest.
Our players didn’t leave because they didn’t want to be there, most were lured away by offers we couldn’t match.
(09-03-2023, 10:15 AM)kruddler link Wrote:FYI, here is a list of players who used to play for Carlton but lined up in opposition colours this round (or were injured in S.Hoskings case)
FB Plane Wilson
HB J. Hosking Davey Gay
C S.Hosking Egan B.Walker
HF Stevens Shierlaw Gee
FF Jones Harris
R Gibbs Prespakis Lucas-Rodd
INT: Brazzale Jakobsson Dalton Privitelli Kennedy
That is a full team of players who wanted out, or were deemed 'not good enough' or too much hassle.
Put our current team up against that team, and i'm pretty sure we lose.
I’d have McEvoy in that squad … and I reckon we’d be more than competitive, particularly with our manic tackling and some of our injured players back in the team.
I can’t believe that Lucas-Rodd is still getting games, Gibbs never got close to her potential, Shierlaw is past it, the Hoskings are done, Walker never recaptured the form of her first season. The better players in that squad left us for more lucrative offers.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - Thryleon - 09-03-2023
(09-03-2023, 10:15 AM)kruddler link Wrote:FYI, here is a list of players who used to play for Carlton but lined up in opposition colours this round (or were injured in S.Hoskings case)
FB Plane Wilson
HB J. Hosking Davey Gay
C S.Hosking Egan B.Walker
HF Stevens Shierlaw Gee
FF Jones Harris
R Gibbs Prespakis Lucas-Rodd
INT: Brazzale Jakobsson Dalton Privitelli Kennedy
That is a full team of players who wanted out, or were deemed 'not good enough' or too much hassle.
Put our current team up against that team, and i'm pretty sure we lose.
Thanks Kruddler. I don't see the point of arguing semantics about names leaving, when my perception of the situation is true, and we have had a good team of players elect to leave.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - DJC - 09-04-2023
Interesting article from last year in which Mimi Hill shares her thoughts about players leaving and how it strengthened the playing group: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-is-hard-rising-star-mimi-hill-on-carlton-s-aflw-player-exodus-20220720-p5b304.html
The following observation by Marnie Vinall is pertinent:
Quote:Several clubs have been decimated by expansion in the AFLW’s past, which hasn’t meant they’ve been sent to the bottom of the ladder or been uncompetitive. Most notably, during the 2019-20 expansion periods, Brisbane lost 16 players in total, more than half their list, and then went on to win the 2021 premiership.
We got off lightly ...
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - kruddler - 09-04-2023
(09-03-2023, 11:05 AM)DJC link Wrote:I’d have McEvoy in that squad … and I reckon we’d be more than competitive, particularly with our manic tackling and some of our injured players back in the team.
I can’t believe that Lucas-Rodd is still getting games, Gibbs never got close to her potential, Shierlaw is past it, the Hoskings are done, Walker never recaptured the form of her first season. The better players in that squad left us for more lucrative offers.
I had McEvoy in the squad, but played mix and match trying to get a good team together and she somehow got lost in the shuffle by accident. Definitely should be in there. But it strengthens the argument.
Lots of players 'are done' but are still better than players on our list.
They could be #20 or #30 on our list....but they are still better than players on our list.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - kruddler - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 02:50 AM)DJC link Wrote:Interesting article from last year in which Mimi Hill shares her thoughts about players leaving and how it strengthened the playing group: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-is-hard-rising-star-mimi-hill-on-carlton-s-aflw-player-exodus-20220720-p5b304.html
The following observation by Marnie Vinall is pertinent:
We got off lightly ...
Apples and oranges.
They were able to pick a state of origin side to start with, and include a few all-stars from elsewhere to begin.
Yes, they lost plenty of players (how many stars?) but they also have half a state to choose players from.....as well as cat b-type players from elsewhere for free.
How did we go last year? For all the spin doctoring attempted by Mimi Hill, we finished 14th/18th.
The only vic club who finished behind us (on equal points no less) was Hawthorn, captained by the Tilly "can't believe she is still getting a game" Lucas-Rodd.
So what does that tell you? A 'hack player' as captain was on a par with us. Wonder why? Player exodus perhaps?
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - DJC - 09-04-2023
Spin doctoring? You’re having a laugh ?
The point of referencing Mimi’s comments is that, unlike Breann, she knew exactly why players left.
As for apples and oranges, think about the population of Queensland and the women’s footy participation rate. A “state of origin” team with an extremely limited talent pool!
Brisbane lost 16 players mainly because of the AFL’s desire to expand the comp. We lost 7 for the same reasons, despite Breann’s naïve comments.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - kruddler - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 12:21 PM)DJC link Wrote:Spin doctoring? You’re having a laugh ?
The point of referencing Mimi’s comments is that, unlike Breann, she knew exactly why players left.
As for apples and oranges, think about the population of Queensland and the women’s footy participation rate. A “state of origin” team with an extremely limited talent pool!
Brisbane lost 16 players mainly because of the AFL’s desire to expand the comp. We lost 7 for the same reasons, despite Breann’s naïve comments.
Remind me, who did Brisbane lose?
Who did we lose?
Guaranteed our 7 has more talent than their 16.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - Lods - 09-04-2023
The way the competition was set up,
The way the expansion was handled,
The lack of history and tradition,
The initial movement of players leading to a lack of bonding,
The less than fully professional nature of the competition,
...all meant that there was always going to be a large number of players changing clubs
We can't look at this competition and think that an AFLW team can mirror its AFL counterpart with over 100 years of history and tradition.
When a young male player comes to Carlton he's surrounded by a group of experienced players. Those players were influenced by a group that came before them and so on... back to formation.
What does the young female player experience...pretty much, so far, a lack of stability and an everchanging player group.
A male player may move for extra money, or opportunity.
A female player may be influenced, and move, because...a friend moves, it's a team she supported as a youngster.
What the competition needs is ...'Time'
Now the teams are sorted, and all in line, expect the movement of players to settle.
As the wages increase, players spend more time together, they bond, they develop a culture and a history, and the competition becomes more professional...the reasons for movements will change.
But don't expect that to happen in a year or two, it will get better, but it's probably a 'next generation' ideal.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - LP - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 09:43 PM)Lods date Wrote:What the competition needs is ...'Time'Personally, my conviction remains that the AFLW needs to develop it's own game style and tactics that suit the player physiology. At the moment it's still full of competitors that want to copy the men, and that is never going to work long term because it consigns AFLW to be a B-Grade version of AFL. If minority politics win and it goes the AFL imitation way it's long term fate is sealed and aligned to competitions like the VFL.
In my opinion the AFLW needs to look towards Gaelic footy and develop a much more frenetic style of game that is less dependant on physicality, collisions and tackling with more emphasis on speed of ball movement and swarming tactics.
Secondly, it has to start appealing to a wider subset of the segment it represents, at the moment it's a niche product largely supported and sponsored by niche sectors. That also has to change, if it doesn't then it's going to place another artificial cap on the potential for broad AFLW growth.
Re: AFLW Season 8 - 2023 - Thryleon - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 09:43 PM)Lods link Wrote:The way the competition was set up,
The way the expansion was handled,
The lack of history and tradition,
The initial movement of players leading to a lack of bonding,
The less than fully professional nature of the competition,
...all meant that there was always going to be a large number of players changing clubs
We can't look at this competition and think that an AFLW team can mirror its AFL counterpart with over 100 years of history and tradition.
When a young male player comes to Carlton he's surrounded by a group of experienced players. Those players were influenced by a group that came before them and so on... back to formation.
What does the young female player experience...pretty much, so far, a lack of stability and an everchanging player group.
A male player may move for extra money, or opportunity.
A female player may be influenced, and move, because...a friend moves, it's a team she supported as a youngster.
What the competition needs is ...'Time'
Now the teams are sorted, and all in line, expect the movement of players to settle.
As the wages increase, players spend more time together, they bond, they develop a culture and a history, and the competition becomes more professional...the reasons for movements will change.
But don't expect that to happen in a year or two, it will get better, but it's probably a 'next generation' ideal.
Thats my point though Lods.
If you know why players are going, then you can put things in place to prevent that eventuality. Some of this is purely asking the question. Groups usually become tight, and then you don't want to leave your mates to play with others. In Taylah Harris case, she helped pioneer the game through the initial bulldogs and demons matches, that raised the bar so to speak, so that was always going to be a bouncing ball.
What else can we do, to prevent these things from occurring? Can we put something in place? From all reports, Harf was doing a decent job, and the ladies were growing in leadership ability on the field. In 2020, we went to a prelim, which was cancelled due to covid. In our semi final against Brisbane here is the leadership group:
Coach: Daniel Harford
Captain(s): Kerryn Harrington, Katie Loynes
Leadership Group: Alison Downie, Sarah Hosking, Nicola Stevens
All of them are gone. Is this common? Are we alone? In that semi final, we belted Brisbane, 44 to 15, and were going to face off against North Melbourne who narrowly beat Collingwood by 2 points before the match was cancelled. North's leadership group contained:
Coach: Scott Gowans
Captain: Emma Kearney
Leadership Group:Jasmine Garner, Emma King, Brittany Gibson (delisted at the end of 2022 season).
They all still appear to be there except the coach has gone to coach Sydney.
The thing is, the players were already starting to change colours before this. Breanna Davey left us to become part of the leadership group at Collingwood as an example, and she was a loss on the field, that was capable of being covered but not that well initially.