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+--- Thread: Darcy Vescio has an announcement (/thread-5493.html)
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - Baggers - 01-01-2022
(01-01-2022, 07:04 AM)Lods link Wrote:I think it's actually good that we're 'having a think'.
The fact that some of us are struggling a bit (myself, very much included) with aspects of it is understandable, but in doing so I don't think there is a great deal of anti-Darcy feeling involved. Most of us wish thee well Darcy.
As I've said before the main thing I'm a bit confused about is this.
Darcy plays in competition that is based on the fact that it is not open to male competitors.
Men can't play in that competition.
By playing in that competition the participants accept that structure. In fact if you have a look at a lot of our clubs AFLW information and advertising Darcy is front and centre.
( I've just changed all the shes and hers (probably missed one)...Can someone give me another pronoun...'They' reads ridiculously, as does the constant Darcy's
That's something I wrestled with also, Principal LODS. From the meagre research I did (which continues), the issue is not so much Darcy's body, which seems woman, but how Darcy identifies Darcy's gender or otherwise. It's about identity, not body... and that is a challenge for those of us who have a body and identity which seem the same.
I also found the pronoun thing tough... so I just settled on the noun 'Darcy' and gave pronouns the flick. Probably lazy on my part, but it's a start founded on respect.
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - LP - 01-01-2022
(01-01-2022, 05:33 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Is the rejection of femininity to do with this? Of so that doesn't make you not female it just makes you a not girly girl.This is close to the money for some cases but not all.
Being female is a competitive sport some feel they just can't win at!
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - blueboys_1 - 01-02-2022
(12-30-2021, 11:33 AM)Lods link Wrote:I'm struggling a bit with this too.
How do you take this stance and then choose to play in a competition that is built and based on a specific male/female distinctions.
x100
Saw this in the Hearld Sun and read the first few paragraphs and then stopped reading. Does my head in. I'm too old school with my way of thinking.
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - blueboys_1 - 01-02-2022
(12-31-2021, 12:01 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:I'm old school and binary numbers converting them to decimals etc is what I understand, non binary humans I dont get, Darcy is a pleasant young lady and thats how I view her.
I think you lose something as a unique individual when you become a non gender abstract object and I wonder what has led to this decision to describe herself in such a neutral manner.
x2
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - DJC - 01-03-2022
(01-01-2022, 10:27 PM)Baggers link Wrote:That's something I wrestled with also, Principal LODS. From the meagre research I did (which continues), the issue is not so much Darcy's body, which seems woman, but how Darcy identifies Darcy's gender or otherwise. It's about identity, not body... and that is a challenge for those of us who have a body and identity which seem the same.
I also found the pronoun thing tough... so I just settled on the noun 'Darcy' and gave pronouns the flick. Probably lazy on my part, but it's a start founded on respect.
Back in the 1990s, one of my colleagues was pursuing a PhD about the continuums that are gender and biological sex. We had many challenging (for me) discussions. I learnt a lot of stuff that made my head hurt but, eventually, accepted that gender is essentially a social construct with the binary model predominant in western society. Many societies around the globe have their own long-established traditions of non-binary gender with third, fourth, fifth, or more genders. Biological sex is not as straightforward as I thought either, with disorders of sex development (DSD), also known as intersex, creating a spectrum rather than the binary assignation of biological sex based on XX - XY, vagina - penis, ovaries - testes.
Darcy's announcement is a bit of a non-event for me. I don't really give a fat rat's clacker about how anyone chooses to define/identify their gender. That's their business. However, I do now know that I shouldn't use female pronouns when referring to Darcy. My main concern is that Darcy continues to play good footy and wins the goal kicking again this season.
I can't see an issue with the fact that Darcy plays in a women's footy competition. Eligibility to play in the AFLW is based on biological sex rather than gender identity. As far as I know, Darcy meets whatever criteria there may be for playing AFLW and self-identification as non-binary when it comes to gender doesn't really matter.
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - tonyo - 01-03-2022
I'm really starting to feel old now. The brave new world is liberating to some, and I respect individual choices, but there are some goal posts that are pretty hard to move. I am well aware there are some individuals who do not fit the traditional male/female profiles because of chromosome or other medical reasons - the difference is, such individuals have not 'chosen' to be non-binary.
As a species, we absolutely rely upon the male-female differentiation for procreation - so what if everyone chooses to be 'non-binary' - is that the end of us as a race? Or can non-binaries with female gentalia meet non-binaries with male genitalia and create non-binary offspring? Hang on, isn't that heterosexuality......?
What if Max Gawn decided they were non-binary - could they play ruck in the AFLW as a lead-up to the AFL season?
Was that Pandora's box I heard creaking....?
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - kruddler - 01-05-2022
https://www.afl.com.au/video/693910/-these-are-not-sad-tears-darcy-vescio-s-emotion-on-revealing-greatest-fear?videoId=693910&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1641344400001
Worth a watch to see how this issue affects Darcy.
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - LP - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 07:38 AM)kruddler date Wrote:https://www.afl.com.au/video/693910/-these-are-not-sad-tears-darcy-vescio-s-emotion-on-revealing-greatest-fear?videoId=693910&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1641344400001Agreed, no doubt about that!
Worth a watch to see how this issue affects Darcy.
But does it change the social politics of the situation, not really.
Darcy's message is important for Darcy, her family, friends and those closest to her, it gives the rest of us some wider understanding, and new found respect for Darcy, but I feel it doesn't really add clarity on the wider issue.
It does however confirm you have to tread very carefully with these issues because you never know the headspace of those affected. Some may have chosen to drive into a tree on the way to training rather than go through the reveal or confronting the pain, and doing that they wouldn't be the first!
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - kruddler - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 08:50 PM)LP link Wrote:Agreed, no doubt about that!
But does it change the social politics of the situation, not really.
Darcy's message is important for Darcy, her family, friends and those closest to her, it gives the rest of us some wider understanding, and new found respect for Darcy, but I feel it doesn't really add clarity on the wider issue.
It does however confirm you have to tread very carefully with these issues because you never know the headspace of those affected. Some may have chosen to drive into a tree on the way to training rather than go through the reveal or confronting the pain, and doing that they wouldn't be the first!
It shows us we should tread carefully because we don't know who is listening and how it affects them. Which in turn DOES change social politics for the same reason. We don't have to understand it, but we need to respect it. We don't have to bend over backwards for it, but for something as simple as using they/them over she/her then its the least we can do. Refusing to do that, shows little respect.
Re: Darcy Vescio has an announcement - Lods - 01-05-2022
Obviously we spend a lot less time discussing the women's competition than we do the men's.
It's probably not that difficult a task to make those they/her adjustments for Darcy...especially while the season hasn't started
I'm wondering whether we'd afford a prominent member of our AFL men's team identifying as binary the same level of 'respect' during lengthy in season discussions.
Some of us may, but when does it become too much of a chore, and do we have different standards for biological males and females.
What if Darcy was a fringe player without the profile. Would we still make the effort because it's unlikely that Darcy will be the last player to take this position. It makes things like forum discussions very difficult with different terms for different players.
Given that it's doubtful too many players are avid readers of CSC does it matter a great deal if we stick to the He for the Male comp and She for the female comp.