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+--- Thread: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 (/thread-5456.html)
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - Lods - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 02:46 AM)DJC link Wrote:Most of the voters were sacked at the end of the season so who did the votes; Sayers and Diesel?
I think most supporters would agree that Walsh and Weitering were our two best players and would have McKay, Cripps, Ed Curnow or Saad in their top five, taking into account games played of course. In fact, all of those players were in the top six in our Jim Park Award. Kennedy and Newman make the top ten in the Jim Park Award, displacing Plowman and Betts.
If the voting was manipulated, why would the beneficiaries be Plowman and Betts? What would be the point?
It's hard to argue against Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Cripps, Ed Curnow and Saad leading the voting; their performances were overt , easily recognised and they played most games. It becomes harder for the average punter to recognise players who are following instructions and unobtrusively carrying out selfless acts.
The voting would have to be done on a week to week basis by the coaches and the results filed away.
;D You wouldn't remember much about Round 1 at the end of August.
Any fiddling would have to take place post season and not involve the coaches at all.
Kennedy and Newman polled well in our Jim Park
Kennedy played only 13 games
Newman played 14 games
The way the CSC (Jim Park) award is structured it depends a lot on numbers voting each week and a the ability for there to be a wide variance in vote allocation.
A big number one week for a player who impressed in a week where a lot of folks voted would be possible.
A tighter voting system would apply in the CFC Best and Fairest and number of games played would be a more significant factor.
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - LP - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 03:18 AM)townsendcalling date Wrote:Only 3 onballers in the Top 10. Is that a reflection of our weak mid or does it show that it is an award for the role players? I assume the latter.
Yes, it's not a midfielders award like the Brownlow, Weitering only has 3 Brownlow votes for his whole career!
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - jeza - 10-15-2021
(10-14-2021, 11:57 PM)northernblue link Wrote:Deservedly so !
And the sackings will continue until Plowman doesn’t get a vote…!
It's more a mark of how far we've fallen. Would Plowman get a list spot at any other club right now? Not in a million years.
Yet he's not just getting a game but getting pats on the back from our coaches despite the numerous obvious deficiencies in his game and never dropped no matter how poorly he performs. Think back to the Dean, Sexton, SOS, McKay, Christou, etc. or the Bruce Doull / Geoff Southby days.... our standards are woeful by comparison.
Intercepting in the back half is more important now than it ever was back in those days so having poor decision makers / turnoverers down there is a problem I'm hoping the new coaching staff come with a level of intolerance for. I've had enough of hearing Carlton supporters making excuses and accepting mediocrity.
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - DJC - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 03:19 AM)Lods link Wrote:The voting would have to be done on a week to week basis by the coaches and the results filed away.
You wouldn't remember much about Round 1 at the end of August.
Any fiddling would have to take place post season and not involve the coaches at all.
Kennedy and Newman polled well in our Jim Park
Kennedy played only 13 games
Newman played 14 games
The way the CSC (Jim Park) award is structured it depends a lot on numbers voting each week and a the ability for there to be a wide variance in vote allocation.
A big number one week for a player who impressed in a week where a lot of folks voted would be possible.
A tighter voting system would apply in the CFC Best and Fairest and number of games played would be a more significant factor.
The senior coach and three assistants cast votes after each game. Each coach can award from one to four votes to every player they feel has performed at the expected level or above. After a good win, votes could be awarded to most of the team while few players would receive votes after an effort like round 22. That's a little like the Jim Park Award but the maximum of four votes would minimise the reward for an outstanding performance. It also means that every player's performance is assessed rather than just focusing on the players in the spotlight for better or more showy play.
Plowman got 86 votes from19 games meaning that he averaged just over one vote from each coach. If he's routinely assessed as playing trademark games and gets a couple of above expectations and an outstanding (say Rounds 1 or 3), 86 points is done and dusted.
Check out how well he played against Richmond in Round 1:
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/885968/afl-r1-plowman-weitering-get-their-job-done?videoId=885968&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1616313490001
And that's pretty well his benchmark.
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - kruddler - 10-15-2021
(10-14-2021, 08:12 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:Not really. The award is a joke and pretty much fixed.
1. Not all clubs even award B+F bonuses. Ross Lyon ditched it when he was coaching.
2. Not all coaches, if any, would be aware of player triggers even if they did.
3. Just because it might've happened once, at one club, doesn't mean it happens at every club, all the time.
4. Different voting systems make things much more difficult to manipulate, and easy to catch out excessive votes.
5. All that being said, and i could go on, lets simply look at this.
Jim Park top 10 vs (Club B+F placing)
5895 - Walsh, Sam (217) - (1st)
3205 - Weitering, Jacob (163) - (2nd)
1832 - Curnow, Edward (380) - (5th)
1634 - Cripps, Patrick (5) - (4th)
1538 - Saad, Adam (5) - (6th)
1538 - McKay, Harrison (0) - (3rd)
1457 - Jones, Liam (0) - (8th)
1152 - Kennedy, Matthew (37) - (unknown)
1024 - Silvagni, Jack (0) - (10th)
765 - Newman, Nicholas (226) - (unknown)
FWIW,
Plowman was 7th and finished 17th in Jim Park
Betts was 9th and finished 12th in Jim Park
Reading between the lines, you are suggesting that Teague looked after his mate Betts to sneak him into the top 10....even though we had him 12th.
If thats incorrect, then your theory is Plowman is the one we give extra votes too (which holds more water based on results than Betts) but that theory doesn't work either because Plowman has been getting more votes than we expect over multiple coaches now and that kind of collusion is something we are not capable of without it being plastered all over the front page.
So i go back to theory 1.....and answer your other question as to why he was delisted. I think that answer is a relatively simple one. He has played 350-odd games and turns 35 next month. Age catches up with everyone!
![[Image: mythbusted-004.jpg?resize=678%2C381]](https://i0.wp.com/thenerdistheword.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/mythbusted-004.jpg?resize=678%2C381)
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - laj - 10-15-2021
Round by Round
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - kruddler - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 08:30 AM)laj link Wrote:Round by Round
So both Eddie and Plowman got more votes in the first half of the year, rather than at the back end of the year to meet whatever triggers some might suggest they were pushed towards.
*oops*
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - PaulP - 10-15-2021
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/extraordinary-walsh-hailed-after-claiming-maiden-john-nicholls-medal-20211014-p58zz9.html
The 21-year-old was a ball magnet, averaging almost 30 disposals per game. He was No.1 ranked at the club for tackles, uncontested possessions and score involvements. His toughness in the contest, outside run, and ability to hit the scoreboard were impressive.......................................................
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - northernblue - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 05:43 AM)jeza link Wrote:It's more a mark of how far we've fallen. Would Plowman get a list spot at any other club right now? Not in a million years.
Yet he's not just getting a game but getting pats on the back from our coaches despite the numerous obvious deficiencies in his game and never dropped no matter how poorly he performs. Think back to the Dean, Sexton, SOS, McKay, Christou, etc. or the Bruce Doull / Geoff Southby days.... our standards are woeful by comparison.
Intercepting in the back half is more important now than it ever was back in those days so having poor decision makers / turnoverers down there is a problem I'm hoping the new coaching staff come with a level of intolerance for. I've had enough of hearing Carlton supporters making excuses and accepting mediocrity.
Yes, all these coaches being happy enough with his performances that they can’t help themselves but pick him each week, if only they’d be more open to your advice…
By the way, I don’t know if any other team would give him a game, as he plays for us, but he did play 20 games for GWS, but they’re fools as well…
Re: Congratulation Sam Walsh - B+F winner 2021 - jeza - 10-15-2021
(10-15-2021, 10:59 AM)northernblue link Wrote:Yes, all these coaches being happy enough with his performances that they can’t help themselves but pick him each week, if only they’d be more open to your advice…
By the way, I don’t know if any other team would give him a game, as he plays for us, but he did play 20 games for GWS, but they’re fools as well…
He is slow, a poor kick and a poor decision maker. He wouldn't get a game at GC right now let alone GWS.