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+--- Thread: Melbourne CBD Incident (/thread-3096.html)
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - PaulP - 01-24-2017
Top post cookie.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - jeza - 01-24-2017
It costs Americans around $2m to execute someone I think.
The legal process is exhaustive - to try to ensure they're not killing the wrong person.
Not saying we shouldn't do it but I am saying it's not like it's much cheaper... unfortunately. Police should have put the bullets between his eyes rather than the arm maybe.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - kruddler - 01-24-2017
This is getting into some dangerous territory and i apologize in advance if i piss anyone off.
What is a mental illness? They are difficult to diagnose and as a result can be 'faked' somewhat.
Recent comments about Hird suffering from PTSD is IMO an example of that.
Previously Gary Lyon was used as an example for suffering depression. Did he always suffer from it or was it brought on because he did the dirty on his best mates missus? Does it matter why it was brought on at all or does the fact he just has it bad enough and require sympathy and understanding? If he didn't cheat would he still have depression? I know someone who knows Gary personally and he gets extremely angry when anyone even suggests that Lyons condition isn't serious. Still, if its because of his own actions, does it deserve the same kind of respect/sympathy/help/understanding???
Similarly, does someone who willingly takes drugs yet refuses to change deserve the same treatment as someone who genuinely wants to turn their life around and kick their addiction get? An example of the first one could be someone like Ben Cousins. Does he deserve the amount of chances/help he gets or should we be harsher on him because of his mindset - eg i dont want to change.
Finally, this idiot this thread is about. I've heard he's an ice addict and suffering from mental problems. As a result of the ice? Does it matter? I'm sure whatever defense he uses will include some kind of leniency for being mentally ill.
Which leads me to my next question. If someone kills someone else and it is not an accident, in self defense or in war....the person essentially wanted to kill someone. If someone willingly kills someone you would suggest that there is something wrong with them.....even mentally unwell. So isn't EVERY murderer mentally ill? Do we extend that to rapists? People who steal cars??
Where is the line of being mentally ill? When is it crossed and what brought on the crossing?
Of course answers to the above question can be extended to the death penalty and if/when it should be applied.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - Gointocarlton - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 12:05 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:While we are at it, why haven't the Apex gang kids been deported?probably because they are Australian citizens I'd guess.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - DJC - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 12:24 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:There are many questions and issues to be resolved here including the treatment and accommodation of the mentally ill, the justice and bail system, the acceptable actions of the police in terms of pursuing and apprehending people posing a threat, punishment v. deterrents etc. etc.
While all of this debate takes place and everyone gets comfortable with the eventual outcomes, we need short term measures implemented that keep innocent people as safe as possible whilst they lawfully go about their normal lives on our streets. Obviously safeguards would be needed to avoid the abuse of civil liberties by authorities, but IMO, our right to safe streets is paramount.
That's nailed it Cookie.
The only question I have is are our streets less safe now than they were in the past? From my own experience of violent incidents, I'd say that not much has really changed in the last 50 years, apart from police routinely carrying firearms.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - Navy Maven - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 01:22 AM)jeza link Wrote:It costs Americans around $2m to execute someone I think.
The legal process is exhaustive - to try to ensure they're not killing the wrong person.
Not saying we shouldn't do it but I am saying it's not like it's much cheaper... unfortunately. Police should have put the bullets between his eyes rather than the arm maybe.
It does cost a bit to execute, that's true, but it costs us an average of $292 a day to house a prisoner. On say a 25 year sentence which would be on the lower end of what these guys will spend in prison, that's $2,664,500. Plus factor in the increase in costs between now and that 25 year mark, we're probably closer to $3.5 million.
I do think however the death penalty should only be used in cases where there is no chance that anyone else committed the crime. Guys like this CBD scumbag where police caught him in the act. You get convicted, maybe 1 chance to appeal, then bye bye Jimmy.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - LP - 01-24-2017
If you saw yesterday's edition of The Project, you will see exactly where the blame lies and the retired Bail Justice pulled no punches.
Kennett closed too many mental health care facilities to reap the rewards of housing developments.
Now the Magistrates and Justices have nowhere to put the mentally ill when they run off the rails. Plus they are pressurized by the government to grant bail because jails are overflowing. Which means many criminals and mentally ill just walk out of the door!
Meanwhile, we blow up millions of dollars in fireworks several times a year and continually subsidise horse, car and motorbike races.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - Gointocarlton - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 02:21 AM)LP link Wrote:If you saw yesterday's edition of The Project, you will see exactly where the blame lies and the retired Bail Justice pulled no punches.The bold bit is it for me. Its a disgrace when you think about it.
Kennett closed too many mental health care facilities to reap the rewards of housing developments.
Now the Magistrates and Justices have nowhere to put the mentally ill when they run off the rails. Plus they are pressurized by the government to grant bail because jails are overflowing. Which means many criminals and mentally ill just walk out of the door!
Meanwhile, we blow up millions of dollars in fireworks several times a year and continually subsidise horse, car and motorbike races.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - Sexybronco - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 02:14 AM)Navy Maven link Wrote:It does cost a bit to execute, that's true, but it costs us an average of $292 a day to house a prisoner. On say a 25 year sentence which would be on the lower end of what these guys will spend in prison, that's $2,664,500. Plus factor in the increase in costs between now and that 25 year mark, we're probably closer to $3.5 million.
I do think however the death penalty should only be used in cases where there is no chance that anyone else committed the crime. Guys like this CBD scumbag where police caught him in the act. You get convicted, maybe 1 chance to appeal, then bye bye Jimmy.
The other thing you would hope the death penalty would bring is some added deterrent, assuming they are capable of some degree of rational thinking.
Re: Melbourne CBD Incident - dodge - 01-24-2017
Unfortunately it has pretty well been proven that the death penalty is not a deterrent, as:
- a drug/alcohol addled person isn't thinking about consequences
- a planned murder often has an element of the perp thinking they won't get caught
- a multi murder (eg US school shooting) has no element of rationality behind it and the person killing doesn't care.
the number of innocent people on death row, depending on whose stats you read, is actually bigger than you may expect (between 5&10%, I think - may need to do some research to freshen the numbers)
There are too many variations for a black and white solution eg what if the person isn't 100% and doesn't understand what they have done is wrong?