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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 07-28-2021

Indonesia seems to be going thru a VERY rough ride.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 07-28-2021

(07-27-2021, 11:24 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Yes. He clearly learned the lessons from last year and is taking protecting his state very seriously. But as Wingman MAV pointed out, many of the deaths last year were due to the Federal Govs poor handling of their responsibility to aged care... over quite some time. Who is the Federal Health Minister?

Why can't you just blame our government?


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-28-2021

(07-27-2021, 11:45 PM)Baggers date Wrote:So I asked him what vaccine he chose for himself. He didn't hesitate to say AZ for himself and his wife. Why? The AZ technology is tried and true whereas the newer technology he doesn't quite trust yet. Just one cats view, but he put his money where his mouth is... or in this case, his and his wife's life. Interesting.
The technology used for AZ has been around since the 60s, I made the point it's Pfizer that is the newbie, but the social media types paint AZ as unproven technology which is the exact opposite of the real situation.

Social media also paints Novavax and J&J as tried and tested, they are the same technology as AZ.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 02:35 AM)LP link Wrote:The technology used for AZ has been around since the 60s, I made the point it's Pfizer that is the newbie, but the social media types paint AZ as unproven technology which is the exact opposite of the real situation.

Social media also paints Novavax and J&J as tried and tested, they are the same technology as AZ.
Novavax is different if you read the link below, even my GP said it looks very promising but said it will create problems in terms of more people wanting it and turning away from the Pfizer like what has happened with AstraZ.
My prediction is they will delay introducing it to allow for full takeup of Pfizer, its meant to be delayed now and not here until 2022 ...
https://theconversation.com/what-is-novavax-australias-third-covid-vaccine-option-and-when-will-we-get-it-157227

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Baggers - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 01:06 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Why can't you just blame our government?

For what?

Just to be pedantic, I prefer accountability to blame. There is absolutely no doubt, in hindsight, that the very late lockdown by VIC last year resulted in much suffering, likewise the Feds poor handling of aged care. But all our governments were still learning about this virus and how to deal with it so dreadful mistakes were inevitable - though the Feds poor efforts in aged care for many years contributed greater due to their neglect. The pressing point is, did we learn from it? Seems VIC and most other states did. Seems NSW didn't.

Most important is how we deal with it now and for the foreseeable future.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Baggers - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 03:34 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Novavax is different if you read the link below, even my GP said it looks very promising but said it will create problems in terms of more people wanting it and turning away from the Pfizer like what has happened with AstraZ.
My prediction is they will delay introducing it to allow for full takeup of Pfizer, its meant to be delayed now and not here until 2022 ...
https://theconversation.com/what-is-novavax-australias-third-covid-vaccine-option-and-when-will-we-get-it-157227

This Novavax seems very encouraging. Probably end up being my, and many others folks', 3rd jab next year. Hope we get to manufacture it here... supporting local industry and employment opportunities.

No doubt technologies will keep evolving until we get on top of this thing. And more stringent safety measures will be enforced in labs fcking around with these viruses. Wink

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 03:34 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Novavax is different if you read the link below, even my GP said it looks very promising but said it will create problems in terms of more people wanting it and turning away from the Pfizer like what has happened with AstraZ.
My prediction is they will delay introducing it to allow for full takeup of Pfizer, its meant to be delayed now and not here until 2022 ...
https://theconversation.com/what-is-novavax-australias-third-covid-vaccine-option-and-when-will-we-get-it-157227
As I understand the AZ, Novavax and J&J only differ in manufacture by targeting different segments of the virus, with all three using the same fundamental manufacturing process.

Novavax uses synthetic component, made in the lab to mimic a part of the virus, introduced by a neutral vector. AZ and J&J use a segment of virus DNA introduced using a neutral vector.

I heard it summarised, Pfizer/Moderna are completely new synthetic, Novavax is 50/50 new synthetic / natural traditional, and AZ and J&J are 100% natural traditional. That is natural as in as natural as they can be, and synthetic as in novel.

The age of the technologies used is the give away, AZ, Novavax and J&J uses techniques in manufacture around since the 60s. The mRNA vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna did not exist until about the mid 2000s.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 04:07 AM)Baggers link Wrote:This Novavax seems very encouraging. Probably end up being my, and many others folks', 3rd jab next year. Hope we get to manufacture it here... supporting local industry and employment opportunities.

No doubt technologies will keep evolving until we get on top of this thing. And more stringent safety measures will be enforced in labs fcking around with these viruses. Wink
Novavax is on the smaller size compared to Pfizer and Astra who are Big Pharma, it does manufacture in Sth Korea and I think might have something going on in India but requires a bit of sponsorship to make things happen unlike the other two.
Bill Gates is one who has tipped in some money to help fund Novavax projects, not sure if they would get any money to help them set up in Australia. Moderna is the company more likely to setup in Australia but they usually partner with other companies to help manufacture and peddle their products.
As LP has suggested in previous posts the business aspects and marketing of vaccines seems as important to these companies as the finished product and although no fan of AstraZ vaccine I am happy to admit it has fallen victim to Pfizer's bigger brand name on the world stage and more aggressive marketing tactics.
AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson have committed to not making a profit from the pandemic, while Moderna and Pfizer did not. AstraZeneca reserved the right, however, to declare the pandemic phase over and take profits from later vaccine sales.
At the start of 2020, Novavax was a clinical-stage biotech with minimal revenue and no products on the market. Now, it has trailing revenues of more than $475 million, and by the end of this year, it might be selling two different vaccines,earning more than $4 billion in annual revenue.
IMHO while these companies are giving us vaccines for little cost at the minute, we have to remember they have been funded by Euro Goverments, the USA Government and some privates, that wont continue after the pandemic is seen as controlled and the price will rise as AstraZ Officials have indicated.



Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-28-2021

Nice summary [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍

I think AZ have been very tactical, a COVID vaccine might not even be part of their long term plan, as they got a bunch of governments to fund the setup of local vaccine manufacture based on their technologies. But that requires patents and contracts to defend which is expensive.

Pfizer have gone for more immediate gains, with closed proprietary techniques some of which is commercial in confidence.

I'm not sure which tactic is wiser long term.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-28-2021

(07-28-2021, 06:21 AM)LP link Wrote:Nice summary [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍

I think AZ have been very tactical, a COVID vaccine might not even be part of their long term plan, as they got a bunch of governments to fund the setup of local vaccine manufacture based on their technologies. But that requires patents and contracts to defend which is expensive.

Pfizer have gone for more immediate gains, with closed proprietary techniques some of which is commercial in confidence.

I'm not sure which tactic is wiser long term.
Pfizer paid out 2.3 billion in a legal case over false marketing of one of their products in 2003 and have had a  string of legal cases against them. They must have a legal dept as big as their research area as they always seem to be involved in some dubious actions. I'm sure they will stop at nothing to make sure they are the Government preferred subsidized supplier of Booster Vaccines in as many countries as they can, this is big business after the pandemic is under control, not often when a Big Pharma company can have everyone essentially forced to have their product twice a year or pay triple for the alternative.