+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: Reset Rants (/thread-3761.html)
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Lods - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 10:12 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:See I'm not giving you success or a premiership. I'm arguing that we have a better chance of having an afl capable competitive team which we can then build on in the future without languishing on the bottom of the ladder like we have over the last three years.
This is where I struggle a bit
Aren't we only languishing on the bottom because we chose to rebuild.
In the four of the six years prior to that we we played finals...an AFL competitive team.
You could guess our side was on the decline...but who knows what our trading and drafting strategy would have been with a less dramatic list management.
Top-ups and changes could just as easily have left us competitive.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - kruddler - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 10:12 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:See I'm not giving you success or a premiership. I'm arguing that we have a better chance of having an afl capable competitive team which we can then build on in the future without languishing on the bottom of the ladder like we have over the last three years.
I agree we have a better chance....not saying otherwise.
However, thats with hindsight knowing how the old team ended up.
What will we think of this team 4 years from now?
Right now, we have high hopes.
4 years ago, we probably had high hopes too.
What we can't see now, that we will see in the future is possibly some of what i mentioned in the what if category.
I give the same speech every year when trying to temper the predictions for the year.
Almost every year there is the following that people fail to take into consideration...
1. A (potential shock) retirement
2. An ageing star failing to live up to their usual high standards
3. A young kid going backwards with 2nd year blues.
4. A long term injury (or 2.....3...)
...and a couple of other things i can't recall right now.
Apply the same to our current list and it already starts to look a little bleak.
1. Simpson - can we cover him? No.
2. Murphy - Injuries seem to be getting the better of him
3. Weitering, Jack, SPS - doesn't have to be '2nd' year exactly, but you get the point
4. Docherty - Currently, but potentially Murphy....we'll lose someone else soon enough too. Have lost Pickett for half a year so far. There will be more.
EDIT:
5. A recruit not living up to expectations.....
5. Kennedy.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Thryleon - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 10:21 AM)Lods link Wrote:This is where I struggle a bit
Aren't we only languishing on the bottom because we chose to rebuild.
In the four of the six years prior to that we we played finals...an AFL competitive team.
You could guess our side was on the decline...but who knows what our trading and drafting strategy would have been with a less dramatic list management.
Top-ups and changes could just as easily have left us competitive.
We finished dead last before we embarked on this rebuild and we weren't bullish about the future in the year Malthouse got sacked. I said four years ago for a reason. We had sacked Mitch, Jeff, Laidler, Waite had walked, Carrazzo was retiring ellard pulled the pin.
We said back then it would take years not because the club told us, but logic stated it.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Thryleon - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 10:37 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I agree we have a better chance....not saying otherwise.
However, thats with hindsight knowing how the old team ended up.
What will we think of this team 4 years from now?
Right now, we have high hopes.
4 years ago, we probably had high hopes too.
What we can't see now, that we will see in the future is possibly some of what i mentioned in the what if category.
I give the same speech every year when trying to temper the predictions for the year.
Almost every year there is the following that people fail to take into consideration...
1. A (potential shock) retirement
2. An ageing star failing to live up to their usual high standards
3. A young kid going backwards with 2nd year blues.
4. A long term injury (or 2.....3...)
...and a couple of other things i can't recall right now.
Apply the same to our current list and it already starts to look a little bleak.
1. Simpson - can we cover him? No.
2. Murphy - Injuries seem to be getting the better of him
3. Weitering, Jack, SPS - doesn't have to be '2nd' year exactly, but you get the point
4. Docherty - Currently, but potentially Murphy....we'll lose someone else soon enough too. Have lost Pickett for half a year so far. There will be more.
EDIT:
5. A recruit not living up to expectations.....
5. Kennedy.
There weren't high hopes four years ago. the future was at best uncertain.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Lods - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 12:41 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:We finished dead last before we embarked on this rebuild and we weren't bullish about the future in the year Malthouse got sacked. I said four years ago for a reason. We had sacked Mitch, Jeff, Laidler, Waite had walked, Carrazzo was retiring ellard pulled the pin.
We said back then it would take years not because the club told us, but logic stated it.
No we didn't ???
We finished 13/18 in 2014, not good but an injury hit season from memory.
The rebuild was declared in April 2015 and straight away sucked the life out of the team as far as season 2015 was concerned.
What the thoughts of many of those players were at the time who were on the fringe can only be imagined.... but it wouldn't have made for productive football.
Over 25 and you would know the chances of you being around when the club next had success would have been slim.
The turmoil around the coach only added to the problem
We cant change the date of the start of the rebuild to coincide with the point where list changes were starting to be made so it fits the narrative of finishing last.
The rebuild and planning for it commenced when the club declared it in April.
And doubtless to say.... the emphasis on performance under Barker would have been more concerned with "list management" than wins
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Thryleon - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 01:15 PM)Lods link Wrote:No we didn't ???
We finished 13/18 in 2014, not good but an injury hit season from memory.
The rebuild was declared in April 2015 and straight away sucked the life out of the team as far as season 2015 was concerned.
What the thoughts of many of those players were at the time who were on the fringe can only be imagined.... but it wouldn't have made for productive football.
Over 25 and you would know the chances of you being around when the club next had success would have been slim.
The turmoil around the coach only added to the problem
We cant change the date of the start of the rebuild to coincide with the point where list changes were starting to be made so it fits the narrative of finishing last.
The rebuild and planning for it commenced when the club declared it in April.
And doubtless to say.... the emphasis on performance under Barker would have been more concerned with "list management" than wins
How did you think we were going to go in 2015 after bringing in Liam Jones, Waite left on free agent, and our other prized recruit Kristian Jaksch played one game and looked not even half as good as McKay??
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Lods - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 02:02 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:How did you think we were going to go in 2015 after bringing in Liam Jones, Waite left on free agent, and our other prized recruit Kristian Jaksch played one game and looked not even half as good as McKay??
To be honest
“It was very, very difficult to see where we were going to lose a game,
I couldn't see it. I’m an optimist. I looked at them and thought: ‘Gee, they’re a good bunch of kids’, I love them and I reckon they can get the best out of themselves and we can have a damn good year.
The most important thing was that people said that they had a crack at it. .”
;D
......Well maybe not that optimistic
But Jones and Jaksch (former first rounder) came with positive wraps. The draft turned out to be a disaster but we didn't know that at the start of the year and thought we may have picked up some good youngsters. While not as positive as Mick I thought finals were a chance...But I think finals are a chance every year. I am an optimist.
We'd had a down year in 2014 but the disaster of 2015 was pretty much of our own making by declaring a rebuild a few rounds in and further complicated by the loss of our Coach and more importantly our Captain.
It was a WTF are they thinking... writing a season off a few rounds in.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Thryleon - 05-24-2018
Do you not remember sacking:
Laidler
Robinson
Garlett
Waite walking
Replacing them with tutt and Jones, Jaksch, Whiley, boekhorst.
Read this thread:
OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??
It's a highlight reel of where we thought we were in 2014.
We were on a road to nowhere. Gozza, sheik and quite a few others were reading the tea leaves a bit. I was blindly optimistic. We were looking ordinary from a while back and quite a few posters called that we needed to rebuild back then.
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Lods - 05-24-2018
(05-24-2018, 02:53 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Do you not remember sacking:
Laidler
Robinson
Garlett
Waite walking
Replacing them with tutt and Jones, Jaksch, Whiley, boekhorst.
Yep.
Those replacements looked pretty good to a lot of people 4 years ago.
I would have done most of those swaps...at the time!
Laidler was playing playing fairly average football for us but a few thought he was hard done by.while he had some support not many were very upset by him going.
For me it wasn't a great loss
Robinson and Garlett had proven to be undisciplined and were regarded as just good average players at best.
...and Waite was either injured or suspended.
Of the incoming all were sold as having the ability to offer something, except perhaps Tutt.
As it turned out we were disappointed.
Hindsight is a terrific thing
Robbo- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1537.0
Garlett- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1622.0
Waite- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1225.0
Laidler- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=402.0
Now plenty of doubters in this lot but also quite a few pointing out positive aspects...
Whiley- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1641.0
Boekhorst- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
Jones- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1601.0
Jaksch- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1554.0
So at the time it was pretty much like for like with our wins and losses....but with hindsight maybe not :
...and folks have been using the term 'rebuild' since 2002 on this forum.
and Sheik had most of the first group on his 'sacked' or 'cracked' list
Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018 - Robblues - 05-24-2018
Most of us will never the complete truth , but how Waite & Eddie were able to leave , but still playing good football for there clubs kicking goals , an area we are so depleted in , I will never understand. Especially Waite, since he left we haven't had recognised forward except Levi on the books even.