(10-25-2022, 09:14 PM)LP link Wrote:How long do people have to make offers of compensation for, some will claim just once, but here we are in 2022 and many of us continue to compensate and apologise for atrocities conducted by our Grandparent's enemy in the WWI and WWII, it's absurd to think this ever ends with an apology!

Too many of the people involved in this debate long term have no interest in an apology, they aren't in it for an apology, and the claims of compensation will never end. If they were given ownership of everything, they'd send an invoice claiming ongoing maintenance!

Actions expose motives, words are meaningless.

Just like Bill Gates and his foundations, Twiggy Forest and his foundations, Gina Rinehart also does a lot of philanthropy, it's not just words, it's big dollars piled into community facilities like health centres, child care and learning, community refuges, mental health, etc., etc., etc.. You can bag those organisations for ravaging the environment, polluting the atmosphere, but you can't question the intent because they actually act while those around them only speak. They could easily just pay a bit of tax and build themselves a fresh mansion, but they don't they act, it's not just words it's actions!

The words published and spoken over the last few weeks vilifying Hancock and by association Rinehart are just that, very cheap words, political rocks thrown by socially active political apparatchiks. Who either don't have the money or won't put in to match the words they speak.

What is happening now is functionally a tantrum, biting the hand that feeds them and barking abuse hoping for more food, like a 2 year old in a supermarket isle!

It's the climate action equivalent of protesting against Gina for digging a fresh mine, while begging her to use the precious materials she finds to build a new solar farm!

(10-25-2022, 09:29 PM)Baggers link Wrote:I don't see these issues as so black and white, cut and dried.

I've apologized, personally, to people who were affected by some of the unethical things my father did... not because I felt responsible for the actions of my father, but because I was confronted with someone hurting and simply needing an acknowledgement that their hurt was legitimate. A simple but important gesture that meant a great deal to the aggrieved person and aided in their healing, and required nothing more from me than sincere compassion/empathy.

However, as others have mentioned, an apology is but a start and if not followed up by effective actions, sustained effective actions, then the apology was likely nothing more than lip service to shut someone up or a superficial exercise from someone to feel better about themselves or appease some guilt. An apology, to use a gardening metaphor, is but tilling the soil in preparation for seeds, fertilizer and regular watering.

As for Gina... I don't like being so judgemental but I see nothing more than a spoilt little brat who overflows with a sense of entitlement due to her financial riches.

(10-25-2022, 09:29 PM)Baggers link Wrote:.....................................

I've apologized, personally, to people who were affected by some of the unethical things my father did... not because I felt responsible for the actions of my father, but because I was confronted with someone hurting and simply needing an acknowledgement that their hurt was legitimate. A simple but important gesture that meant a great deal to the aggrieved person and aided in their healing, and required nothing more from me than sincere compassion/empathy.

....................................................................

(10-25-2022, 12:13 PM)DJC link Wrote:I’m sorry Thry but that is a complete misunderstanding of what is a complex situation.

Kevin Rudd quite rightly offered an apology for government policies that, while probably well-meaning, had dire consequences for Indigenous Australians.  Rudd’s apology had nothing to do with Lang Hancock’s genocidal rant.

It’s worth noting that Hancock was advocating genocide in the 1980s.  When did the Ottoman Empire displace the Byzantine Empire?

One could also ask when was the Islamic Al Andalus empire overthrown by the Christians (with the pagan Vikings running interference)?

Your cultural heritage doesn’t give you insight into the colonial treatment of Indigenous Australians, Melanesians, Polynesians, Native Americans, South Asians, etc.

(10-25-2022, 11:18 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:The pogroms and death marches were instigated less than 100 years ago.  Turkey invaded Cyprus (dressed up in a humanitarian peach keeping mission) after the British withdrew in 1974.  These things are a lot more fresh than people think, yet here i am born in 1982, understanding that the landscape at the time is very difficult to view through a modern lens, and that is the crux of the issue.

Healing, isnt about an empty sorry.  These comments were made 30 years ago, when the "Oakleigh wogs" were a rough and tumble group from suburbia who terrorised innocent people in the name of protecting themselves.  My father drove a taxi, was beaten and robbed by a customer who called him a bloody wog along the way to leaving him hospitalised whilst he was simply putting himself through school.

The point being, that bad people say and do bad things and how we view them 30 years later 1980 vs 2022.....  These people were not even born at the time, and nothing came of the commentary and some of those beliefs were quite commonplace at that time amongs bigots and people of that persuasion. 

Without wanting to say that I understand better than anyone else, I think I am qualified to state I understand better than you think I do, and its because I myself have decided that its better to let it go and stop this from shaping your future.

On a personal level, I have grown up feeling very much a fish out of water.  Not really identifying with Australia because of my Greek heritage. and culture has at times led to people telling me that I should just head back to where I came from and then when I go on holiday being called an Australian by the Greeks.  Thing is, this can be a problem, or a good thing depending on how you look at it.  I don't think we need to silence people who are speaking out about issues, and potentially, further just maintaining the status quo, or actually making matters worse.  You will all no doubt understand that there is a certain level of angst between Macedonians who claim not to be of Greek heritage, and Greeks who declare that the only true Macedonians are Greek.  This is, I recognise that history has made this murky, and modern nationalism has shaped these mentalities to the situation where two differently alligned people currently are butting heads over the names, cultures, and history of the region.  Thing is, It all goes back to the same old same old chest thumping, modern borders are drawn and re drawn over and over again, and sometimes people of some political persuasions are in favour, and others are not.

The crux of the problem is simply one of interpretation and the issue is one of Balkan Politics.  Rather than getting angry about it, its easier to recognise that this landscape has changed a lot, and anyone declaring a truth is only declaring one version of it.  Hancock likely stated racist views.  Gina shouldnt have to pay for it or apologise for it if she doesnt show them herself.  How does her organisation do its business?

https://www.hancockprospecting.com.au/projects/philanthropy/education-and-the-community/

So sponsoring NAIDOC week since 2012 isnt enough?

(10-25-2022, 09:29 PM)Baggers date Wrote:I've apologized, personally, to people who were affected by some of the unethical things my father did... not because I felt responsible for the actions of my father, but because I was confronted with someone hurting and simply needing an acknowledgement that their hurt was legitimate.

(10-26-2022, 12:18 AM)LP link Wrote:I get that, ............... but what compensation did you offer?

(10-26-2022, 01:26 AM)Baggers date Wrote:First and foremost it wasn't about compensation, it was about acknowledgement. Then listening to what they wanted or thought was reasonable and having those communications valued. Nothing earth-shattering. Just basic decency and honest communication.

(10-26-2022, 03:04 AM)DJC link Wrote:Why are folk assuming that Indigenous Australians want an apology from Gina?

They simply want to know whether she agrees or disagrees with Lamg’s genocidal beliefs. 

I would have thought that would be a fairly simple undertaking ?