(08-15-2021, 07:45 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Nice one Pauly . I dont dispute development of coaches, been saying it myself for a while only to be shot down because many think coaches are just meant to know what to do, we aren't a training centre. As a football club, we are in the business of winning games of football, so how do we give ourselves the best chance of winning? We recruit the best players and hire the best coaches. If we hadn't sacked 4 coaches in the last 10 odd years, would you move Teague on to get the best coach in business?
Maybe another way of asking the question I asked earlier for a friend ( ;D ) is do we think will Teague be a four time premiership coach by the time he is 53?

(08-15-2021, 08:26 AM)PaulP link Wrote:As with anything involving human behaviour (the so called soft sciences) knowing when to keep and when to discard a coach is not a precise science by any means. I think we need a new starting point, which is to basically do what the Pies, Cats, Hawks, Tigers etc. have done. Evaluate Teague properly, find out things like if he is a problem, has premiership potential etc., then act based on that. I wouldn't make any decision on him until that happens.

At this point I don't see Teague as a premiership coach. But it is way too early to be making that call, and unfair on him by some margin IMO. Does anyone see Dew as a flag coach ? Longmuir ? Nicks ? Rutten ?

What gives us the best chance of winning ? Get the board in order first - more important than the coach. As outsiders we only see the tip of the iceberg, and that in itself is a big problem.

I understand the appeal of Clarkson. He is, in a way, the ultimate messiah, and therefore the ultimate temptation. I'm certainly tempted, but I just think in this instance we need to resist the temptation.

I'm not sure if I've answered all your questions. Let me know.

(08-15-2021, 08:57 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Fair enough, I do hate the word messiah as it has a negative connotation more often than not. As I said before, you want to hire the best people possible through proper analysis to match your strategic plan. People can see them as messiahs, I just see them as high end quality people/resources. 

(08-15-2021, 09:04 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Those are fair points. I should also add that Clarkson hasn't won a final since 2015, and they currently sit 14th.  I don't wish to start yet another coach v list debate, but these are things worth bearing in mind IMO. If you want to look at immediate form before hiring a coach, I'd just like to say that Malthouse had Pies purring in 2011 - 20W, 2L, 167.7%. Some were saying he was past it - how then do we judge Clarko ?

(08-15-2021, 09:05 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:According to Champion Data Hawthorn are the form side of the comp based on the last 4 weeks.

(08-15-2021, 08:57 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Fair enough, I do hate the word messiah...

(08-15-2021, 11:46 AM)northernblue link Wrote:A point worth noting is that it seems very hard for older coaches who have had a long tenure at their current club to move house and integrate quickly and well in a new environment… think Pagan, think Malthouse, think Sheedy, makes me extra wary of Clarkson (admittedly younger than the other three)

At their original long tenure club these guys are the centre of the universe and certainly the players either fall into line or don’t last and if everyone else is in line new players are more likely to also fall into line… it’s a natural cohesion.

Put that coach into a fresh environment and stuff can hit the fan quickly…