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+--- Thread: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) (/thread-3564.html)
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - LP - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 11:52 AM)maxm68 link Wrote:I wish Dean Jones + Brad Hodge ( And now Maxwell ) got the same chances back in the day.
There is a power of players who never got equivalent opportunities.
Clarke made an interesting comment, he described the Marsh's as ripper blokes, the sort you want to have around the team. Hardly a reason for test selection, maybe that can keep them around like Nugget!
I may have told this story before but nepotism in cricket is very real, and not always the way you think. A friends son was blatantly blackmailed three years ago, threatened by a state cricket official, told to leave home and play grade cricket in NSW or he'd never pull on the baggy green even though he had represented his State and Australia multiple times at junior level. He declined and the abuse and interference became so bad, abusive txts and phone calls, hassling his parents, hassling his club and coach, that in the end he gave the game away and chose football!
The NSW official turned out to be a relative of a high ranking Australian and NSW cricket official, it seems they were making the you'll play for us or nobody scenario very real! They were in effect standing over kids in other states to move to NSW grade clubs or else.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - laj - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 02:44 AM)crashlander link Wrote:I would not have selected Mitch Marsh.
In his favour, he is a big, athletic lad who hit the cover off the ball and bowl about the pace of the present English bowlers. That is not a bad set of traits to have.
However, as a bowler he does not tend to move the ball in the air or off the pitch enough. Too many of his balls come through gun-barrel-straight! That is not good for an international bowler.
Secondly, as a batsman he does not deal well with a moving ball. This means he has periods of low scores against pace or spin.
These weaknesses are not the things to bring into test cricket, especially against the Poms.
It has been a LONG time since we had a true allrounder in the side. In the '70's, almost every player could and did bowl a bit. Keith Stackpole had a pretty good leg break in his arsenal. Ian Chappell bowled some leggies. Greg Chappell was a medium pacer who could move ht eball either way. Doug Walters was the official 'patnership breaker'.
After that we still had guys who were wickettakers as bowlers. Simon Katich bowled chinamen and bowled them well. Injury restricted his bowling, but he took 6 wickets in a innings. Bevan was an unreliable bowler, but his left arm wronguns simply couldn't be read. He got a lot of wickets, and had he better contro he would have made the team as a bowler.
Now we don't have that. Warner and Smith can bowl leggies, but they rarely do.
We need a batsman who can bowl properly. Not many of them around.
If Marsh is going to bat in the top 6 his strength needs to lean towards his batting. He's always going to be the 5th bowler, and a very handy one he is, always good for a wicket or two, but importantly we need him to make run. His bowling is going to be more relief.
Outside of a pure genuine all rounder probably the ideal type you were talking about was Andrew Symonds. A genuine batsman that averaged over 40, who was a more than proficient bowler that could provide relief.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - DJC - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 11:05 PM)laj link Wrote:If Marsh is going to bat in the top 6 his strength needs to lean towards his batting. He's always going to be the 5th bowler, and a very handy one he is, always good for a wicket or two, but importantly we need him to make run. His bowling is going to be more relief.
Outside of a pure genuine all rounder probably the ideal type you were talking about was Andrew Symonds. A genuine batsman that averaged over 40, who was a more than proficient bowler that could provide relief.
The problem is Marsh is nowhere near good enough to bat at 6 in a Sheffield Shield team.
Is Marsh a good enough bowler to be selected as a bowler in the Test team? No, definitely not.
You don't even have to think about whether his batting is good enough.
An all rounder must be good enough to earn a place in the team as a batsman or as a bowler. Marsh misses out on both counts and his inclusion in the Test squad is inexplicable.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - LP - 12-08-2017
It's amazing how the most emotive debates seem to form around players who are a compromise.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - laj - 12-08-2017
(12-07-2017, 11:47 PM)DJC link Wrote:The problem is Marsh is nowhere near good enough to bat at 6 in a Sheffield Shield team.
Is Marsh a good enough bowler to be selected as a bowler in the Test team? No, definitely not.
You don't even have to think about whether his batting is good enough.
An all rounder must be good enough to earn a place in the team as a batsman or as a bowler. Marsh misses out on both counts and his inclusion in the Test squad is inexplicable.
He's had a good FC season with the bat this year so hopefully that is going to carry over to the Test arena. His last 6 innings 95, 28, 141, 11, 43 and 38no. Let's hope it carries over as he has never filled me with confidence. Only bright side is that he couldn't bat worse than Handscomb right now plus he'll bowl.
Can only reward form but that being the case Maxwell must consider himself very unlucky.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - ElwoodBlues1 - 12-08-2017
(12-08-2017, 12:19 AM)laj link Wrote:He's had a good FC season with the bat this year so hopefully that is going to carry over to the Test arena. His last 6 innings 95, 28, 141, 11, 43 and 38no. Let's hope it carries over as he has never filled me with confidence. Only bright side is that he couldn't bat worse than Handscomb right now plus he'll bowl.
Can only reward form but that being the case Maxwell must consider himself very unlucky.
Averages around 21 with the bat at test cricket...he would probably bat at No 3 for England
but here in Aus you need to be at around 35-40 IMO even batting at six to earn your money. Maybe they might bat Paine at six if Marsh plays....
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - laj - 12-08-2017
(12-08-2017, 03:02 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Averages around 21 with the bat at test cricket...he would probably bat at No 3 for England
Hopefully 2nd time round that will improve. Of that glorious Australian sides through the late 90's/2000s every batsman was dropped at some stage. They were much better then 2nd, even 3rd time around. Symonds was once considered a professional fieldsman at one stage then eventually went on to be pretty good.
M.Marsh's recent form has been good and this summer picking blokes in good FC form like Bancroft, S.Marsh and Paine has been a success so far.
I say that out of hope as having two Marsh's in the side scares me, although we certainly can't complain about Shaun's form.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - Jack Burton - 12-08-2017
Maxwell is in better form and scoring more runs than M Marsh
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - laj - 12-08-2017
(12-08-2017, 06:59 AM)Jack Burton link Wrote:Maxwell is in better form and scoring more runs than M Marsh
There's that too.
Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) - Sexybronco - 12-10-2017
(12-08-2017, 06:59 AM)Jack Burton link Wrote:Maxwell is in better form and scoring more runs than M MarshApparently that doesn't matter, coach has declared Mitch has earned his spot so that's that. Handscome will have to work hard to get back in this side but he's done for this series I reckon.