(05-26-2017, 02:49 AM)Mav link Wrote:All we need is the dictionary definition.  This is from the online OED:In other words, both Greeks and Muslims can be described as races for the purposes of defining racism.  It isn't limited to Caucasians or Asians, for example.

In fact, in modern times, the idea of humans being divided into genetically discrete races is seen increasingly as an unfortunate mistake which has in fact led to racism.  As the ads for Ancestry.com demonstrate, our DNA is usually a mix of influences.  I remember seeing US a talk show that had a white supremacist on it and he agreed to a DNA test.  He had no fear because he was as white as white can be.  Yet the test showed he had a considerable African heritage and he was devastated.  Subsequently, he was shunned by other white supremacists

(05-26-2017, 01:48 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Its really simple LP.

The litmus test, on any argument to do with racism, is how this would make someone feel about the comment if it was the first time they had heard it?

Mine is straight to anger, but over the years I have been conditioned to accept this and find that the next generation should not be put through as much.  Not because I should, or because its right, but due to it being common place.

Thats not a reason for this stuff to continue.  It was once common for people to own slaves.  It was also once common for men to beat their wives.  Likewise, sometimes things that are uncommon should become more common.  I.e. Women getting equal treatment.

Calling someone a spastic or a retard is out.
Calling someone a spear chucker is out.
Using a racial group as the butt of a joke to insinuate that "we are better than you" based purely on ethnic group is out even if that is a "harmless joke".

Perhaps I am a little more sensitive to this because a lot of people from my ethnic background at my demographic have started raising families of their own, and my wife and I are starting that discussion/attempt ourselves, and Ive decided that "the standard I walk past is the standard Im willing to accept" and this means a world, where my little ones wont be made fun of because they are Greek/Portuguese Australians(when we are fortunate to have our own).

GIC only meant it to be some light hearted fun, but after I called him out on it, you chimed in with your own comment, and I only see further comments as an attempt to backpedal somewhat.

If you dont like the term racism, how does casual bigotry sound instead?? Label changed, same outcome.

(05-26-2017, 03:30 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:So are "race" and "racist" becoming increasingly meaningless when we really mean biased, prejudiced, judgmental, discriminatory, mean spirited, ignorant and plenty of other more meaningful words that can be applied to people callously abusing any number of different groups? I fear "racist" could be becoming just a trite tag that gets trotted out  and is starting to gloss over the real motivations that drive it?

(05-26-2017, 08:03 AM)Mav link Wrote:Personally, I'd apply 'racist' to derogatory comments regarding somebody's country or region of origin or faith where that is largely linked to the former.  When people talk about Muslims, for instance, mostly this refers to Muslims from the Middle East and tends to be another way of saying 'Arabs'. For instance, Mohammad Ali was rarely a target of such comments. I think that Indians and Pakistanis can definitely be racist towards the other. And obviously where someone's appearance is different because of their geographical origins, derogatory comments concerning those differences are racist.

(05-26-2017, 07:35 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Understand and accept all that. People however do have different tolerance levels to it. Me for example? Water off a ducks back. I consider myself Australian as I was born here. My heritage is Italian of which am very proud of but I have never said "I am Italian". In fact, whenever I am (or was) asked "Are you Italian", ever since I was kid I answered "No, I'm Australian, born here but my parents are Italian". That's not in any way because I am ashamed of my heritage, on the contrary, I am very proud of it as I am also proud to be Australian. I have experienced what is termed "racism" all my life but I just dont give a fark. Am I thick skinned? Does it not worry me because I think of myself as an "Aussie" as opposed to a "Wog"? No idea. It just doesn't get to me at all. But I do understand that jokes like the one I made are now considered offensive and are a no go. Do I agree with it? No not really. Do I accept it? Of course I do.

(05-26-2017, 10:46 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:There's a relatively simple way to keep things above board.

If there is little truth in the comment then odds are this comment stems from a place that is just taking the pi55 and is hurtful.

Examples. 

water being a Jewish cocktail (yep derogatory,  not true potentially mean spirited stems from historical class division).

Someone being fat, thin, red haired et Al.  Statement of fact.  Context might make comments about them mean spirited,  but the comments are descriptive.

Call someone a fat bastard who eats all the pies, mean spirited even if true. 

It really isn't hard.  before saying anything ask if there is anything mean spirited about the joke.  If there is, then odds are it shouldn't be said.