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+--- Thread: Australian Open 2017 (/thread-3094.html)
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Wet Willie - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 04:34 AM)LP link Wrote:Not sure you can justify the behavior of a 21 year old Kyrgios by referencing the behavior of 16 year old Federer.
Perhaps Kyrgios' parents should take away his pocket money!
I wasn't...but making out that Roger has always been a saint is not quite right - fantastic over the past decade though.
Just saying every player has their moments in a very demanding sport...
Re: Australian Open 2017 - PaulP - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 04:39 AM)Wet Willie link Wrote:What a cheap shot...and this time last year another poster on this site accused her of having mental issues!!
Sam Stosur's record is fine - she has been a Top 25 player for the best part of 10 years, not a bad effort and there are a lot of players who can't boast that.
Out of all the court surfaces, the ones used in Australia give her the most trouble...she hates them, but never complains.
Have a look at her end of year player ranking (keeping in mind in 2007 and 2008 she was suffering from Lyme disease):
2016 #21
2015 #27
2014 #23
2013 #18
2012 #9
2011 #6
2010 #6
2009 #13
2008 #52
2007 #46
As Andre Agassi once said: "that's the thing about opinion, you don't have to know anything to have one..."
There isn't a tennis fan alive who would think that Stosur has achieved her potential. She's been a disappointment by any measure.
Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Mav - 01-23-2017
Remember, also, that Kyrios had massive support as he made his initial breakthrough in the AO. The fact that he was a showman didn't put many off at all. Brashness isn't a disqualifying quality at all. His haircut was just as trendy and his strut was just as confident as now. I can even remember suggesting at the time (I think on here) that Tomic had to watch out as Kyrios and Kokkinakos were both such a dose of fresh air and talent that the public would desert him and follow them instead. In an egg-on-face moment, I suggested that they were so much better behaved than Tomic. It might be easy to rewrite history by concluding that Kyrios' dress and ethnicity were always going to work against him, but there's nothing to support it. Tanking, however, is ALWAYS going to kill off support. I can just imagine what would happen on our site if one of our players cracked the proverbial and refused to compete. The blond and blue-eyed Hendo certainly copped his fair share of criticism on that score.
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Mav - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 04:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.Really? He's as competitive as anyone on tour and obviously hates losing, but respects opponents and officials after a loss. After a loss, you can give him the microphone and you can be confident he won't go beserk. He's had a lot of disappointments since he last won a major, and now has the redemption story that makes his AO campaign so compelling. After being Apollo Creed in earlier years, he's now the gritty underdog in the mould of Rocky.
Re: Australian Open 2017 - LP - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 04:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.
Really, Roger Federer, cow owner, driver of station wagons?
Perhaps you're thinking of Jimmy Connors or Boris Becker, now there is a pair of definitions for smugness and poor sportsmanship?
Re: Australian Open 2017 - PaulP - 01-23-2017
Perhaps it's a little churlish on my part to take issue with Fed given the preponderance of others with worse behaviour. But he simply gets on my wick. And as DJC pointed out, when he loses it's always about him. How badly he played, how bad his preparation was etc. He rarely acknowledges his opponent. Although to be fair, this has improved somewhat in recent times.
Saint Roger.......meh.
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Thryleon - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 04:09 AM)DJC link Wrote:Murray is not Anglo; he's a Celt. We may look similar but don't lump us all together ; Kyrgios has Malayan ancestry too.
I understand what you're getting at though Thry. I wonder how Kyrgios would be treated if he was a little more conservative in his appearance.
Did you hear Daria Gavrilova explain how she used a toilet break to regain her composure?
I know it's not part of the game now but I wonder if giving players the opportunity to call a time out would reduce the temper tantrums and bad behaviour.
Apololgies DJC.
FWIW this is my opinion on athletes, copy and pasted from elsewhere:
He's a Brit. It's ok for them to act like wankers but not others. To be honest, I think they should be able to behave as they like provided they aren't breaching rules. Why do athletes have to be held to such high standards when we accept all manner of fuckwits in society? They're good at sport ffs not the delai lama.
Look above. People get all churlish about Kyrgios, but his opponent took Wawrinka through the wringer to try and beat him (straight sets, but 3 tie breakers in a row is as good a contest as you will get in straight sets, and there is no shame in not winning a set), and you can state that he would achieve more if he applied himself, but not one person has acknowledged that Andreas Seppi who played about as good a tournament as he ever has beat him fair and square by being more measured.
It was interesting, Seppi even stated in his post match press conference that he had been at that point before (like Kyrgios) and lost and that he learned from it.
Now its a matter of whether or not Kyrgios will learn.
Regarding the casual racism, its not up to me to defend that. I have simply pointed it out. What I find interesting, is the need for people to then act like its to do with his "behaviour". Look above, they are people. Not all humans are the consumate professionals. We should know that all too well, and anyone below 22 really shouldnt have this level of scrutiny on what they do. We judge them on exposure of maybe 40 hours a year. What do we know about their lives? We have people calling them spoilt, but last I checked, there must be some level of dedication to even turn pro in the first place. We comment all the time about people "making it" and then not applying themselves once at the top level. Phillipoussis was another example.
He never really tanked during his career, but he got lots of negative criticism because of the Cars and the women. its his life, he lives it, and does what he does.
(01-23-2017, 02:10 AM)Mav link Wrote:Big difference between Hewitt and Kyrios. Hewitt never gave up on a point, let alone tanked games or sets. And no one ever questioned how he trained and prepared for the tennis year and for tournaments and matches. No one ever questioned whether he wanted to get the best out of himself in his tennis career. Hewitt and Kyrios are in fact on opposite ends of the determination and dedication scale.Hewitt was never held to any standards and was regarded as the darling of Australian sport even if he was guilty of steeling someone else's celebration, and then pumping up every single point he won, even if it was his opponents unforced error (unsportsmanlike IMHO).
Still, he had fairly high standards that he lived up to, even if he was occasionally unsavoury and was capable of pulling the excuse of blaming the surface at the Aussie open but no one begrudged that of him.
Quote:One of the biggest sins in sports is a professional sportsman who tanks. When Kyrios walks to his chair as his opponent is serving, he sets himself up for contempt. Tanking is prohibited by the ATP. That may be mostly down to betting issues, but it also mirrors the attitudes of tennis fans.
No doubt Hewitt and Murray have had their meltdowns on the tennis court but they never tanked as a result. Murray's play used to be detrimentally affected by his outbursts and anger while Hewitt actually played better when he felt the world was against him. But the meltdowns were more a reflection of their desperation to win rather than a lack of interest and focus as it is with Kyrios.
If Kyrios just broke a few racquets but busted his guts to win, most fans would forgive him for some bad behaviour. But tanking adds an unforgivable 2nd strike. That said, if he grows up and gives his best, Aussies will quickly embrace him.
The accusation of tanking is interesting. Just because everyone calls it tanking, doesnt mean he necessarily did. Its kind of hypocritical. We have someone who is admonished for not doing the work in to be a proffesional athlete, and then when he plays a very flat game of tennis after probably going to his limits in such a short period of time, due to poor preparation, he is then accused of tanking.
Even at the Shanghai Masters, it was against Mischa Zverev. A bloke who knocked out Andy Murray in 5 sets yesterday.
I don't really care whether or not people like or dislike an athlete, but to me, I see this particular case as casual racism and its not up to me to convince you it exists, I'm throwing the comment out there as to why people automatically have the above opinions of the southern europeans particularly in the media.
Again, athletes are not the moral compass of society, and if the media are attacking someone, these days you should ignore them because they go the easy headline most of the time and most of the easy ones have been thrown out about Nick Kyrgios.
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Mav - 01-23-2017
It would have been nice if you had acknowledged that Kyrgios was officially fined by the ATP for tanking at the Shanghai Masters and suspended for 8 weeks and he apologised. He is the first player to be suspended for behavioural issues since McEnroe in 1987. Other players have been fined for tanking (e.g. Safin) but their behaviour didn't draw a suspension. So as he's a "convicted" tanker, I don't need to convince you he tanks when he walks to the chair while his opponent is in his service action as he did in his loss at the AO. I'm just putting it out there. But if Kyrgios feels it's unfair for tennis fans to think, "Here he goes again", he would seem to be in the same position as the old guy in this joke:
Quote:So a man walks into a bar, and sits down. He starts a conversation with an old guy next to him. The old guy has obviously had a few. He says to the man:
"You see that dock out there? Built it myself, hand crafted each piece, and it's the best dock in town! But do they call me "Smith the dock builder"? No! And you see that bridge over there? I built that, took me two months, through rain, sleet and scoarching weather, but do they call me "Smith the bridge builder"? No! And you see that pier over there, I built that, best pier in the county! But do they call me "Smith the pier builder"? No!"
The old guy looks around, and makes sure that nobody is listening, and leans to the man, and he says:
"but you frack one sheep..."
Re: Australian Open 2017 - DJC - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 06:59 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Apololgies DJC.
...
I don't really care whether or not people like or dislike an athlete, but to me, I see this particular case as casual racism and its not up to me to convince you it exists, I'm throwing the comment out there as to why people automatically have the above opinions of the southern europeans particularly in the media.
...
No apology necessary Thry.
I suspect you're right about casual racism; Murray cops it from the English too, except when he's winning. There are probably other factors at play too; tall poppy syndrome, grumpy old men, self righteous shock jocks with an axe to grind and ratings to protect ...
Re: Australian Open 2017 - Thryleon - 01-23-2017
(01-23-2017, 07:33 AM)Mav link Wrote:It would have been nice if you had acknowledged that Kyrgios was officially fined by the ATP for tanking at the Shanghai Masters and suspended for 8 weeks and he apologised. He is the first player to be suspended for behavioural issues since McEnroe in 1987. Other players have been fined for tanking (e.g. Safin) but their behaviour didn't draw a suspension. So as he's a "convicted" tanker, I don't need to convince you he tanks when he walks to the chair while his opponent is in his service action as he did in his loss at the AO. I'm just putting it out there. But if Kyrgios feels it's unfair for tennis fans to think, "Here he goes again", he would seem to be in the same position as the old guy in this joke:
If he has to fight his tanking past every time, then it's clear people will always have an axe to grind against why they dislike him.
it was only a couple of years back you could substitute tomic for Kyrgios with the exact same criticism.
He pulled out of one match with an injury.