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+--- Thread: East West Tunnel (/thread-2583.html)
Re: East West Tunnel - cookie2 - 03-01-2016
(03-01-2016, 06:21 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:That tunnel/road has been part of a master plan for decades
You mean that master plan that never gets implemented?
Re: East West Tunnel - Thryleon - 03-01-2016
(03-01-2016, 08:47 PM)blueday link Wrote:Andrews spent $1b of our cash after promising it would not cost anything, you alreday coughed up for a road we dont have. Did he keep that promise? Now the independent infrastructure panel has east/west as first on the list we will pay again. You tell me who played politics with our cash.
Just on this, they throw all these figures around with little to no analysis, and last I checked that quantity of money hasnt actually been spent by the Andrews Government.
Part of it was the land buy back that happened years ago which has been spent, and whilst that land does cost money in terms of rates etc, its not money that the government is going to pay to council now, its council rates the council have not seen since.
Government talk about money is political bulltish first, and actual money spent later.
I wouldnt be surprised if the actual cost of not building the road was nothing, but people created a hole in balance sheets to show this figure. I know a little bit about budgets, and how money gets handballed around, and I can tell you that this is the most likely scenario here.
Re: East West Tunnel - JonHenry - 03-01-2016
(03-01-2016, 10:28 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Just on this, they throw all these figures around with little to no analysis, and last I checked that quantity of money hasnt actually been spent by the Andrews Government.
Part of it was the land buy back that happened years ago which has been spent, and whilst that land does cost money in terms of rates etc, its not money that the government is going to pay to council now, its council rates the council have not seen since.
Government talk about money is political bulltish first, and actual money spent later.
I wouldnt be surprised if the actual cost of not building the road was nothing, but people created a hole in balance sheets to show this figure. I know a little bit about budgets, and how money gets handballed around, and I can tell you that this is the most likely scenario here.
So Thry, are you saying the contractors simply walked away with nothing?
Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
Re: East West Tunnel - Thryleon - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 11:49 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:So Thry, are you saying the contractors simply walked away with nothing?
Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
Not at all.
I am saying that they use wild numbers to bring up the total dollar value, not recognising tangibles.
i.e. they spent money to buy houses and land, which resulted in an increase in assets to go with expenditure, and that those assets have dollar values that are increasing in time because inner city land values change.
Just like they state the public holiday for the grand final costs 1 billion dollars.
Understand?
I seem to recall that 300 million was sitting in coughers earning interest waiting to be spent on the project, and that the federal government demanded the money back from the state government in order to hamstring the state government.
As a voter, I hate all politicians as I see them for the snakes they are.
In this case we have Federal (Liberal) contributing to ensuring that the state government (Labor) look bad.
Why is that do you think?
As for the contractors, who knows what dollars they actually walked away with, but there is no chance that they walked away with more money than it was originally going to cost to build the fricken thing. This is all political tit for tat rubbish and the only person footing the bill is joe average at the end of the line.
Re: East West Tunnel - PassIt2Carrots - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 12:13 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:As a voter, I hate all politicians as I see them for the snakes they are.
Amen to that brother!
Re: East West Tunnel - Gointocarlton - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 06:19 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:To be perfectly honest I wouldn't use it either.That's the (community) spirit.
But it would have supported melbournes economy and taken a large percentage of traffic off the streets around Carlton fitzroy and collingwood, but at the end of the day, if you're not going to use it Jim, why should the state of Victoria build it?
Re: East West Tunnel - ItsOurTime - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 11:49 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
On the bright side, I took a look at what houses are doing in that area last week and if the government sells the houses they bought a year or two ago, they should make about a hundred million on ripping up the contracts
Re: East West Tunnel - kruddler - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 11:41 AM)ItsOurTime link Wrote:How does that make it a bandaid? There's not a single bit of complicated infrastructure you build once and forget. It needs investment and updating otherwise it becomes an issue.
I'm suggesting that people proclaiming the east west link is required to fix traffic issues is missing the bigger picture.
It will 'ease' traffic, in some areas only. It will fix nothing. Bandaid solution.
As many have mentioned, master plan, one piece of the jigsaw puzzle etc etc.
@Crash i think it was talking about radial system.
The 'outer rings' you talk about are what the buses are supposedly for. Buses on the roads that are jammed and contribute to the overall problem.
Outer ring rail system would be simply put in the too hard basket.
I used to play sim city back on the SNES when i was younger. If my city got to the stage Melbourne is at now, i'd just about take your approach and nuke the whole thing!
Re: East West Tunnel - DJC - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 07:54 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I'm suggesting that people proclaiming the east west link is required to fix traffic issues is missing the bigger picture.
It will 'ease' traffic, in some areas only. It will fix nothing. Bandaid solution.
As many have mentioned, master plan, one piece of the jigsaw puzzle etc etc.
@Crash i think it was talking about radial system.
The 'outer rings' you talk about are what the buses are supposedly for. Buses on the roads that are jammed and contribute to the overall problem.
Outer ring rail system would be simply put in the too hard basket.
I used to play sim city back on the SNES when i was younger. If my city got to the stage Melbourne is at now, i'd just about take your approach and nuke the whole thing!
Yes, a bandaid over a festering sore.
Buses would really only work if there was a dedicated carriageway and I imagine that would be a cheaper option than rail or light rail.
Re: East West Tunnel - blueday - 03-03-2016
(03-02-2016, 08:06 AM)DJC link Wrote:Yes, a bandaid over a festering sore.
Buses would really only work if there was a dedicated carriageway and I imagine that would be a cheaper option than rail or light rail.
Buses don't work, name one city in which they solved this or a similar problem. Trains are required to be efficient and regular to be effective like the MRTs in Asia, yet they do not cover the distances we are talking about east to west of Melbourne and we simply do not have the CBD infrastructure to support a significant increase in PT passengers from a high functioning east/west rail line.
Easy to call PT the solution to the problem, hard to explain how it would actually help.
As for the argument that the money spent was not that much, bull*@_. We paid a massive (we don't know how big) break contract fee, for nothing.