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+--- Thread: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread (/thread-4986.html)
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Thryleon - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 06:52 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Yes, I agree. Even if you take a cynical position, and assert that she is simply reading from a script and probably disagrees with every word, saying sorry does make a difference, even a small one. Words do matter. Words backed by equivalent actions are even better, but the words are a good, albeit small, start.
Without wanting to state anything about the original position, Kevin Rudd got up and said this sorry.
At some point, this isn't about righting wrongs its about making sure that the rage is maintained. It's anti reconciliation and stands only to provoke and inflame.
Why do you think there is a giant backlash evey single time these matters come up?
Its because people shouldn't be made to feel guilt and shame for the ills of people that came before them.
Gallipoli literally translates to blue city in my native Greek language. What do you think Turkey have to say about the hellespont and Gallipoli peninsula? Nothing. Its theirs was always theirs will always be theirs and nothing that anyone says will say otherwise including the conversion of Christian churches to Islamic temples.
The people that live in these places call it their home. No apology will erase history. If someone wronged me, asking their children to apologise on their behalf is petty. At some point you need to let bygones be bygones and let people heal from these wounds not reinforce it and hold it against them for ever.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - PaulP - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 08:09 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Without wanting to state anything about the original position, Kevin Rudd got up and said this sorry.
At some point, this isn't about righting wrongs its about making sure that the rage is maintained. It's anti reconciliation and stands only to provoke and inflame.
Why do you think there is a giant backlash evey single time these matters come up?
Its because people shouldn't be made to feel guilt and shame for the ills of people that came before them.
...
.......................No apology will erase history. If someone wronged me, asking their children to apologise on their behalf is petty. At some point you need to let bygones be bygones and let people heal from these wounds not reinforce it and hold it against them for ever.
I disagree on all points.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Thryleon - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 08:34 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I disagree on all points.I agree to disagree with you but am intrigued as to why you removed the Greek turkey thing.
Do you agree with that bit?
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - DJC - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 08:09 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Without wanting to state anything about the original position, Kevin Rudd got up and said this sorry.
At some point, this isn't about righting wrongs its about making sure that the rage is maintained. It's anti reconciliation and stands only to provoke and inflame.
Why do you think there is a giant backlash evey single time these matters come up?
Its because people shouldn't be made to feel guilt and shame for the ills of people that came before them.
Gallipoli literally translates to blue city in my native Greek language. What do you think Turkey have to say about the hellespont and Gallipoli peninsula? Nothing. Its theirs was always theirs will always be theirs and nothing that anyone says will say otherwise including the conversion of Christian churches to Islamic temples.
The people that live in these places call it their home. No apology will erase history. If someone wronged me, asking their children to apologise on their behalf is petty. At some point you need to let bygones be bygones and let people heal from these wounds not reinforce it and hold it against them for ever.
I’m sorry Thry but that is a complete misunderstanding of what is a complex situation.
Kevin Rudd quite rightly offered an apology for government policies that, while probably well-meaning, had dire consequences for Indigenous Australians. Rudd’s apology had nothing to do with Lang Hancock’s genocidal rant.
It’s worth noting that Hancock was advocating genocide in the 1980s. When did the Ottoman Empire displace the Byzantine Empire?
One could also ask when was the Islamic Al Andalus empire overthrown by the Christians (with the pagan Vikings running interference)?
Your cultural heritage doesn’t give you insight into the colonial treatment of Indigenous Australians, Melanesians, Polynesians, Native Americans, South Asians, etc.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - DJC - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 03:54 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:The narrative changed because the public didn't side with the netballers on climate change so they played the race card.
Gina's daddy was a racist so she should say sorry? Yeah Nah.
Is it so hard to separate a comment from someone who last played for the Diamonds in 2017 from the current Diamonds team members?
The only change in the narrative is in your perception.
Lang Hancock didn’t just play the race card, he played the genocide card. Gina doesn’t have to say sorry, a simple statement about whether she agrees or disagrees with her father is all that is required. She has been given countless opportunities but has consistently refused to state her position.
Should she be excused from adhering to basic human decency requirements because she’s filthy rich? Yeah, nah!
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Lods - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 12:13 PM)DJC link Wrote:Your cultural heritage doesn’t give you insight into the colonial treatment of Indigenous Australians, Melanesians, Polynesians, Native Americans, South Asians, etc.
Unless your ancestors were Irish, many of whom were dispossessed of their land by the English, murdered in great numbers, treated as less than human, left to starve during times of famine, hung and imprisoned for trivial crimes or loaded on boats and transported to the other side of the world often never to see friends and family again.
Sadly, it is probably true that once settled in the new land some of the abused became themselves abusers.
It is a complex situation.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - PaulP - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 11:54 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I agree to disagree with you but am intrigued as to why you removed the Greek turkey thing.
Do you agree with that bit?
I was going to go through your post point by point, outlining why l disagreed. I know little about the "Greek Turkey thing", and not having anything to offer on the matter, I left it out. I changed my mind and decided not to bother , and left my post as is.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - LP - 10-25-2022
How long do people have to make offers of compensation for, some will claim just once, but here we are in 2022 and many of us continue to compensate and apologise for atrocities conducted by our Grandparent's enemy in the WWI and WWII, it's absurd to think this ever ends with an apology!
Too many of the people involved in this debate long term have no interest in an apology, they aren't in it for an apology, and the claims of compensation will never end. If they were given ownership of everything, they'd send an invoice claiming ongoing maintenance!
Actions expose motives, words are meaningless.
Just like Bill Gates and his foundations, Twiggy Forest and his foundations, Gina Rinehart also does a lot of philanthropy, it's not just words, it's big dollars piled into community facilities like health centres, child care and learning, community refuges, mental health, etc., etc., etc.. You can bag those organisations for ravaging the environment, polluting the atmosphere, but you can't question the intent because they actually act while those around them only speak. They could easily just pay a bit of tax and build themselves a fresh mansion, but they don't they act, it's not just words it's actions!
The words published and spoken over the last few weeks vilifying Hancock and by association Rinehart are just that, very cheap words, political rocks thrown by socially active political apparatchiks. Who either don't have the money or won't put in to match the words they speak.
What is happening now is functionally a tantrum, biting the hand that feeds them and barking abuse hoping for more food, like a 2 year old in a supermarket isle!
It's the climate action equivalent of protesting against Gina for digging a fresh mine, while begging her to use the precious materials she finds to build a new solar farm!
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Baggers - 10-25-2022
I don't see these issues as so black and white, cut and dried.
I've apologized, personally, to people who were affected by some of the unethical things my father did... not because I felt responsible for the actions of my father, but because I was confronted with someone hurting and simply needing an acknowledgement that their hurt was legitimate. A simple but important gesture that meant a great deal to the aggrieved person and aided in their healing, and required nothing more from me than sincere compassion/empathy.
However, as others have mentioned, an apology is but a start and if not followed up by effective actions, sustained effective actions, then the apology was likely nothing more than lip service to shut someone up or a superficial exercise from someone to feel better about themselves or appease some guilt. An apology, to use a gardening metaphor, is but tilling the soil in preparation for seeds, fertilizer and regular watering.
As for Gina... I don't like being so judgemental but I see nothing more than a spoilt little brat who overflows with a sense of entitlement due to her financial riches.
Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread - Baggers - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 08:02 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:If you can find that sponsorship elsewhere thats all well and good.
Thing is, in sports, I've been part of organisations that have battled for sponsorship and Hancock are not Australia's biggest issue when push comes to shove.
I wasn't motivated by knowing I could find sponsorship loot elsewhere, I was motivated to refuse sponsorship on occasions as a matter of principle. It was about values.
I also learned long ago when running a not-for-profit (indeed any business) to always be exploring and engaging multiple revenue streams. Too many in the philanthropic community rely on, say govt grants, as their sole revenue source - very, very risky, or one or two major sponsors - also risky.