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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 10:52 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Apparently 40% of 0eople hospitalised with covid in the UK are double vaccinated.

Its not the shield people think it is.

The official statement (corrected from an earlier one) is that 60% of hospital admissions are unvvacinated, which means the remaining 40% would be either single dose or double dose. I don't think you can assume how many of those have received both shots. Being admitted to hospital is bad enough, but you'd need to see the severity of illness / symptoms, duration of stay in hospital etc. between the two groups to draw further conclusions. They're not all on the same level simply because they've been admitted. The other issue is long covid.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 11:11 AM)PaulP link Wrote:The official statement (corrected from an earlier one) is that 60% of hospital admissions are unvvacinated, which means the remaining 40% would be either single dose or double dose. I don't think you can assume how many of those have received both shots. Being admitted to hospital is bad enough, but you'd need to see the severity of illness / symptoms, duration of stay in hospital etc. between the two groups to draw further conclusions. They're not all on the same level simply because they've been admitted. The other issue is long covid.

Just passing on what I've heard.

I dont care about figures, I care about facts.

Fact.  The vaccine isn't a magic bullet fix for covid and guarantees nothing.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 11:33 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Just passing on what I've heard.

I dont care about figures, I care about facts.

Fact.  The vaccine isn't a magic bullet fix for covid and guarantees nothing.

I don't really know what to make of that. I find your second and third sentences rather strange to be honest. There may people somewhere on the planet that think the vaccines are a guarantee, but that is much more a comment on them. The amount of information out there on covid is suffocating. If after all that, those people still don't understand what a vaccine does, I'm not sure what else can be done to get through.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 10:52 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Apparently 40% of 0eople hospitalised with covid in the UK are double vaccinated.

Its not the shield people think it is.
No vaccine has 100% efficacy, no vaccine has ever had 100% efficacy.

When you vaccinate whole country populations you still have hundreds of thousands of people that the vaccines won't work for, but you will still save or reduce the suffering of millions!

There is a term for sowing doubt about vaccines in the way some try, it's called Seeding Certain Uncertainty. The naysayers basically argue that the vaccine isn't perfect, so the inference is why bother, but nobody ever claimed the vaccines are perfect, and it is only the naysayers that try to assert imperfection is somehow unworthy or a fail.

The vaccines are overwhelmingly successful, there is no need to fear them and there is certainly no need to spread the seeds of doubt.

The hunt for perfection should never become the enemy of good or excellent.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 11:50 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I don't really know what to make of that. I find your second and third sentences rather strange to be honest. There may people somewhere on the planet that think the vaccines are a guarantee, but that is much more a comment on them. The amount of information out there on covid is suffocating. If after all that, those people still don't understand what a vaccine does, I'm not sure what else can be done to get through.

You got an answer commensurate with your response.

People admitted to hospital are generally not well.

Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.

As for sowing vaccine doubt, that is neither here nor there.



Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 12:07 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:....................................
People admitted to hospital are generally not well.

Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.
..............................

Players on an AFL injury list are also not well. Some might only be on that list for a week, and other might be gone for 12 months. Not all hospital admissions are the same, and without comparing the various issues I mentioned above, it's difficult to say much more.

The whole point of mass vaccination is precisely to achieve a better future.


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-20-2021


(07-20-2021, 12:07 PM)Thryleon date Wrote:Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.
 .................. better than it could have been!


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 07-20-2021

If you two stopped arguing for an outcome and exercised a modicum of understanding you'd quickly discover the following thought process and point being made.

In a situation where nsw has 85 odd in icu off less than 5000 cases, in a future state where we are all vaccinated irrespective of Vaccination we are going to see rising hospitalisation off rising positive cases.

Even if this is a better outcome to the alternative (no this isn't an argument against Vaccination) the worst is still ahead of us and its a lot worse than our current state of being.

THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 01:21 PM)Thryleon date Wrote:THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?
It's not a certainty though that these cases will be ICU, long term hospitalisation of critical care, or that the ratios of severe to mild won't be adjusted by the vaccine, and there is no doubt there would be far far more without the vaccines.

Hospitals will thank the vaccine, much like the cheering crowds at Wimbledon thanking some of it's inventors, without the vaccine the consequence is unmanageable and unmentionable.

The assertion that things will get worse and that is someway a justification to decry the vaccines is ridiculous and bizarre coming from someone in the health industry. What other motive do you have for the drive by comment PaulP reacted to?

Sowing seeds of doubt is serious, somewhere someone will be petrified of the vaccine as a result of those inferences, and they will die. I'd even safely assert some already have forgone the opportunity to vaccinate and have died as a result!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - flyboy77 - 07-20-2021

(07-20-2021, 01:21 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:If you two stopped arguing for an outcome and exercised a modicum of understanding you'd quickly discover the following thought process and point being made.

In a situation where nsw has 85 odd in icu off less than 5000 cases, in a future state where we are all vaccinated irrespective of Vaccination we are going to see rising hospitalisation off rising positive cases.

Even if this is a better outcome to the alternative (no this isn't an argument against Vaccination) the worst is still ahead of us and its a lot worse than our current state of being.

THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?

Where does the 85 in ICU number come from?