+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: Reset Rants (/thread-3761.html)
Re: Reset Rants - kruddler - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:11 AM)Jack Burton link Wrote:Why would Thomas call C Curnow dumb and tell other clube he has no idea where to run? Just giving ammunition and information to opposition clubs. Can't see how this helps Carlton
I think it was more about once he has the ball, rather than when he is trying to get it.
Him being unpredictable to his teammates means the opposition certainly can't plan for him.
Re: Reset Rants - Gointocarlton - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:11 AM)Jack Burton link Wrote:Why would Thomas call C Curnow dumb and tell other clube he has no idea where to run? Just giving ammunition and information to opposition clubs. Can't see how this helps CarltonMy take on it was that Daisy was suggesting CC is goofy, nothing more than that. He suggested he does things in a way that makes him unpredictable. There was no malice whatsoever.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:04 AM)kruddler link Wrote:So we can't use Daisy Thomas' evaluation of a player because he isn't a supporter.
Yet, you go on to say that the club knows best.
No comment about the salary cap breaches i threw in there?
Pretty sure supporters would know its not the right way to run a club.
You stated that no CFC player would be universally loved, then include as "evidence" for this fact comments made by Thomas wrt CC ?
The issue of whether to play by the rules or not is vexed and one that constantly appears in various guises on here. I've lost count of how many posts on here I've read about how we are now a club of goody two shoes, whilst other clubs get away with blue murder because they don't play by the rules. So now that we are honest, law abiding citizens, does that make us well run ? Should we as supporters tell the club we know best because other clubs are rorting the system and gaining an advantage ? Do clubs other than us "know best ?"
Re: Reset Rants - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:18 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:My take on it was that Daisy was suggesting CC is goofy, nothing more than that. He suggested he does things in a way that makes him unpredictable. There was no malice whatsoever.
x2.....I know that Ben Reid at Collingwood is known for being as thick as six fire doors, cant play to instruction and they take the pi55 out of him all the time but the players all love him and its said in jest, Charlie probably is seen as equally goofy/thick but its in an affectionate way and Thomas was only having a bit of fun like mates do....
Re: Reset Rants - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 07:52 AM)Shakin77 link Wrote:In the real world you can't expect this list to be anymore than it currently is, given it's demographics. If at the start of the season Essendon had our list we would have all said that a bottom 2 list. Otherwise you are getting into Murray Goulbern Areas of telling everyone you will get $4 a litre for milk, when the market wants to pay $2
Our blue chips talent is all at the bottom end age wise. It's difficult to draw parallels with North who still have Higgins, Goldstein, Robbie Tarrant, Ziebell, Cunnington, Brown all 25 years old with 100 odd games of football? Who do we have in this bracket to match that? Our blokes at that age bracket are Kerridge, Lamb, Mullett, Shaw, Phillips, Jones, Casboult, Wright, Curnow, Kreuzer, Lobbe. Battlers and honest footballers. These are the guys that are consistent with their performance week in week out.
North haven't cut back like we have. They still have talent at the top end. If they traded Zeibell and Higgins maybe.
In 3-4 years time who will have the better list when this bracket moves on.
So timeframe?
GWS took 4 years to break 50/50, but had a massive injection of young talent.
Maybe similar to the Demons rebuild. Vintage 2012.
Moved (or lost) Rivers, Moloney, Stef Martin, Green, Sylvia, Frawley. Cut the dead wood and didn't have much top end older talent.
2012: 16th 4 wins. Rebuild Starts
2013: 17th 2 wins
2014: 17th 4 wins
2015: 13th 7 wins.
2016: 11th 10 wins.
2017: 9th 12 wins.
Now Melbourne haven't mastered the rebuild. It's not the Blueprint, but it shows how long it can take and yes I think it can be done quicker with FA etc. But you have Gawn (26), Viney (24), Hogan (23), Salem (22), Petracca (22), Hunt (23), Tyson (24) all at that 60-100 game bracket. Add Oliver and you are on your way.
I would think bottom 4 next year.
Thats a comprehensive answer, you make a lot of good points and I agree with your theory of bottom four next season....while I am happy to agree I'm not so sure the average supporter will see an extended rebuild built on development at the expense of results for too long as acceptable or the media who like a unsuccessful coach/club or two as a target for for headlines....
Re: Reset Rants - kruddler - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:18 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:My take on it was that Daisy was suggesting CC is goofy, nothing more than that. He suggested he does things in a way that makes him unpredictable. There was no malice whatsoever.
Agreed. Thought that came across in my post, but perhaps not.
Re: Reset Rants - kruddler - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 09:38 AM)PaulP link Wrote:You stated that no CFC player would be universally loved, then include as "evidence" for this fact comments made by Thomas wrt CC ?
The issue of whether to play by the rules or not is vexed and one that constantly appears in various guises on here. I've lost count of how many posts on here I've read about how we are now a club of goody two shoes, whilst other clubs get away with blue murder because they don't play by the rules. So now that we are honest, law abiding citizens, does that make us well run ? Should we as supporters tell the club we know best because other clubs are rorting the system and gaining an advantage ? Do clubs other than us "know best ?"
So you avoided the 'club knows best' question in regards to salary cap. Nice.
The point of including Daisys comments was to point out a side that you personally do not see. There are plenty of people who see things that you do not see. Doesn't make them right, or wrong, but spend enough time in the outer and you will hear every single player being cursed out by 'fans'. Some of them justified, many not. Are these people 'normal', depends on your position at the time. Its all relative.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 12:13 PM)kruddler link Wrote:So you avoided the 'club knows best' question in regards to salary cap. Nice.
The point of including Daisys comments was to point out a side that you personally do not see. There are plenty of people who see things that you do not see. Doesn't make them right, or wrong, but spend enough time in the outer and you will hear every single player being cursed out by 'fans'. Some of them justified, many not. Are these people 'normal', depends on your position at the time. Its all relative.
Thanks for the lesson in postmodernism - much appreciated.
At no point did I say the club was infallible - what I said was the club (any club) is club is filled with professional people who know more about football and running a football club than the punters. A position which I consider to be accurate. Even if, as we saw in the Eliot era, the club was run by dinosaurs who achieved success under an old system, and were unable or unwilling to adopt to a new system. Did the club make bad decisions at the time ? Of course. Should we hand over the reins to amateurs because they know cheating is dodgy ? No thanks.
I was more vociferous than just about anyone in respect of sacking Ratts - I thought it was a sh1t decision then, and nothing that's happened since has caused me to change my mind. Do I know more than the club ? Is it a case of Paully knows best, and the club is full of numb nuts ?
The club does know best, but that doesn't mean they are not capable of stuff ups. Some people might believe that there is a yawning chasm between success and failure, that the distance between 1st and 18th is enormous. I think it's much closer than most people think.
Re: Reset Rants - Thryleon - 05-11-2018
The Ratten decision Paul on the face of it and with the benefit of hindsight looks poor, but we have no idea what keeping him as coach would have meant.
It may have resulted in an even poorer outcome (which seems difficult to imagine) but perhaps a Murphy Gibbs departure back then... We'll never know and must simply respect that the club made its bed and is now lying in it.
It might have turned into a flag (doubtful our key positions weren't great and our midfield has never looked even close to as effective as it was without Judd and Murphy in full flight).
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-11-2018
I don't deny any of that Thry.